The Cost of Being Late

Jono Hey:

So, what is it about being fashionably late?

And why is it fashionable?

 

Rob Bell:

Does this come down to what you think your dad was alluding to, Tommy, and that it's rude socially, it's rude to turn up on time?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Maybe.

Is it also the power thing or the coolness thing?

You know, the most important people arrive hours and hours late because they've got other parties they've got to be at.

 

Jono Hey:

If you're early, you're on time.

If you're on time, you're late.

And if you're late, you didn't want to be there.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I try incredibly hard to, and I have improved significantly, but most of my entire life, I have been late.

 

Rob Bell:

So many possible excuses, but what's the true cost of being late and to who?

 

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What?

 

I'm Rob Bell, and with me here once again, my accomplices, the Captain Crunch of creativity, Jono Hey, and the Mr.

 

Muscle of Mischief, Tom Pellereau.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Very nice.

 

Rob Bell:

Evening to you both.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Good evening.

 

Jono Hey:

Good evening.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Mr.

 

Muscle.

 

Rob Bell:

Yes.

 

Jono Hey:

You're pretty good at them, it seems.

 

Rob Bell:

Do you know, I did a commercial voice reel once, which is really fun to do.

 

You just find TV ads or radio ads that you think you could replicate, and then with a producer, you kind of replicate them all.

 

It's great.

 

It's really, really fun, because you put on all sorts of voices.

 

Jono Hey:

You remake ads that you already know.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

And he puts like cool sound effects and stuff in.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Is that just for giggles, or?

 

Rob Bell:

No, it's to try and get work doing ads.

 

Tom Pellereau:

It's just for fun.

 

It's a great day out.

 

Rob Bell:

There have been some ad campaigns that have really, really stuck with me, and some from my childhood.

 

I don't know if I ran you boys.

 

There's a weird one.

 

I mean, I started off with the old Snap, Crackle and Pop.

 

There was one, it was Kellogg's Fruit and Fibre.

 

I remember it.

 

And it was a TV ad, and there's a couple of guys, a guy and a girl, and maybe like a caddy in a golf cart, and they're going through this kind of weird golf world.

 

And the song, I remember at the end, it goes, apples, hazelnuts, bananas, raisins, coconuts, sultanas.

 

Now my breakfast, really going with a swing.

 

Jono Hey:

I do remember that one.

 

Rob Bell:

Do you know who that is?

 

Do you know who that is?

 

The guy who says that at the end.

 

It's Ross Kemp.

 

No way.

 

Grant Mitchell from EastEnders and kind of hard man documentary guy.

 

That's brilliant.

 

That's one of mine.

 

Any from you boys, any that you remember?

 

Jono Hey:

That's a good trivia.

 

I remember a lot as kids for some random ones, they just stick with you, like pick up a penguin, quick fit ones or like...

 

Rob Bell:

You can't get quicker than a quick fit, that's where the boys seem to trust.

 

Jono Hey:

Exactly.

 

Rob Bell:

That one.

 

Jono Hey:

That person sitting in the bath with it overflowing, not answering the telephone, eating a flake.

 

I mean, who eats a flake in the bath?

 

It's just ridiculous.

 

Rob Bell:

Wasn't there a lizard runs across the telephone at some point?

 

But they stick with us, right?

 

Jono Hey:

Remember the umbongo.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah.

 

Umbongo, umbongo, they don't live in the jungle, do they?

 

Rob Bell:

If you just mumble it, you get through it.

 

I think it's, they drink it in the Congo, I think it was.

 

Jono Hey:

It was very, which obviously don't.

 

It's probably why they're not doing that.

 

Rob Bell:

Do we know that for sure?

 

I'd love to go, I've not been to the Democratic Republic of Congo, but I'd love to go there one day and see a big un-Bongo truck drive down the road.

 

Jono Hey:

And you'll say, yeah, Jono.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I knew it.

 

Jono Hey:

I knew it.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Do you remember the Hamlet, the mild cigar ones with the squirrel, was it the squirrel?

 

Jono Hey:

They were good.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Or the?

 

Rob Bell:

There were quite a few, the squirrel.

 

Jono Hey:

They had the air on a G-strings.

 

Rust, somebody.

 

Rob Bell:

I think, have you confused the Carlsberg one?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Or is that the Carling Black Label?

 

Rob Bell:

Sorry, Carling.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Bet he drinks Carling Black Label.

 

Yeah, Hamlet, the mild cigar was slightly different ones.

 

Rob Bell:

The Hamlet mild cigar, I remember, is the guy who's trying to get his photo done in a little photo booth and he's got a little comb over.

 

And it keeps taking the photo when he's not quite ready.

 

Jono Hey:

You remember the bin men walking around whispering, shh, shh.

 

They see like somebody's left the fridge out and they're like, oh, all right, go on, let's take it.

 

And it's like Carlsberg.

 

We don't do bin services, but if we did, they'd probably be the best in the world.

 

Rob Bell:

They were good, they were good.

 

Well, I love that world of advertising.

 

I find it fascinating.

 

And like people who work in advertising as well, the creatives who come up with these things, absolutely awesome.

 

I learned this a little while ago.

 

A friend of mine works in advertising and she is part of a creative team.

 

And when you are in that world, you kind of, you become a couple, the two of you in this creative world in advertising and you stay together.

 

So you have like your work husband or wife.

 

And if one of you leaves to go to another agency, you both leave.

 

And you've very much become this partnership.

 

I don't know if that's unique to advertising, but I found it fascinating to learn that when I did.

 

Jono Hey:

If you have a spare half an hour, I really recommend there's an article about the invention of Baileys, the drink.

 

And it's basically like, first of all, there's two guys working at an agency and they got 3000 pounds for inventing Baileys as a drink, which is just sold as 15 billionth bottle.

 

And they literally just came up with the whole thing.

 

The previous one they worked on was like Kerrygold butter, which is still going.

 

And then they were working on a whiskey product and they were like, why don't we put these things together?

 

You know, put basically cream in your whiskey.

 

And they're like, that's crazy.

 

And they walked down the shop and bought some sugar.

 

And then that didn't work.

 

And then they walked down and got some hot chocolate powder.

 

And they're like, this is actually quite good.

 

It's fascinating to read.

 

Rob Bell:

That's amazing.

 

I will look that up, because I love stuff like that.

 

I love how brands come together.

 

It's good fun.

 

Jono Hey:

Lucas Edd Sport.

 

Rob Bell:

Gets you a thirst first.

 

It does.

 

It's isotonic.

 

That's how the world was introduced to this sports, science phenomena of something that's isotonic.

 

Jono Hey:

Nobody even knows what it means, do they?

 

Rob Bell:

Brilliant.

 

I'll tell you what it means.

 

It means it's in balance with your body fluids.

 

But Sketchplanations has a slogan, right?

 

Tom Pellereau:

It does, it does.

 

Rob Bell:

Go on.

 

Jono Hey:

Explaining the world one sketch at a time.

 

Rob Bell:

Brilliant.

 

Did that come to you?

 

Did you have to work on it?

 

Did you put it out to advertising agencies?

 

Jono Hey:

No, I didn't run that through a branding agency.

 

I probably should do.

 

I wanted to get a bit of alliteration after reading this book about writing.

 

And also because some of it's like less literal these days.

 

In fact, some of that, I think, is actually more interesting to explain stuff, which is less literal, that you wouldn't find like in a geography textbook.

 

I wondered about the wisdom of the world in sketches, because you've got like these W's, that kind of thing.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

Jono Hey:

But I am still one at a time.

 

Rob Bell:

I like it.

 

Jono Hey:

Trying to explain the world.

 

Rob Bell:

I like it a lot.

 

I like it a lot.

 

Jono Hey:

Thank you.

 

Rob Bell:

All right, let's move this along.

 

A bit of admin though, before we do head into this week's episode.

 

Thank you all once again for listening.

 

And I think I talked about it last week that, you know, I like to think of it, this podcast family, this podcast community that we're creating.

 

And fun fact, if you are listening to this, you are part of a club that at my last check, spans across 70 different countries, seven zero.

 

And the only continent that we're yet to break is Antarctica, but we're working on it.

 

So if you do know anybody who lives down there or is maybe stationed down there for a while, it'd be amazing to try and get them to listen in as well, even if it's just for one episode, so we can trigger that stat for the podcast series all across all seven continents.

 

And we always welcome with great warmth and appreciation and love all of your emails and correspondence.

 

Tommy, what's the email address?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Hello at sketchplanations.com.

 

Rob Bell:

Thank you.

 

And you can also obviously get in touch with us via social media as well, leave us comments or whatever.

 

So let us know about your experiences or thoughts on any of the topics that we've covered on here.

 

And we'll be sharing some of those again at the very end of this episode.

 

And if you're only just joining us on this, our eighth installment, and you fancy going back to listen to the previous episodes, quick correction, this is actually our 13th episode.

 

Remember, a podcaster day helps you work, rest and play.

 

Here we go.

 

This week, we're gonna be talking about the true cost of being late.

 

What does repeated tardiness say about someone and their attitude towards others?

 

And I can feel all three of us, we're slightly, slightly nervous.

 

We've come into this with a little bit of trepidation this evening.

 

Jono's sketch should be up on your screens now as the artwork for this episode, but if not, you can always seek it out at sketchplanations.com.

 

All right then, Jono.

 

This one's fairly simple, isn't it?

 

I mean, it's fairly straightforward.

 

But do you want to start by describing the scenario that you portray in your sketch and tell us why you felt this was something you wanted to include in your collection of sketches?

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, for sure.

 

So the scene is very simple, as you say.

 

It's essentially like a big meeting.

 

This is like a board meeting, a long table, and there's 10 people sat at the table, and there's one chap coming in and he's like, oh, sorry, guys, got caught up for 10 minutes.

 

And what I tried to do in the sketch is highlight this.

 

10 minutes for him being late, but actually every single one of those people who were sat at the chairs, all 10 of them, had also lost 10 minutes, and that adds up to like 100 minutes of wasted time.

 

And so it was about not underestimating the collective waste of time if you hold things up.

 

And it's not always, I think, trying to get across that we don't always think about adding up all the time that is being lost.

 

We just think about the time that we lost, that 10 minutes, and actually 100 minutes were lost.

 

It's been like, if you have a team meeting and a company meeting and you've got 100 people and it's an hour, that's 100 hours of work that you're using for that.

 

So this stuff is quite precious.

 

So that's what I was trying to get across, yeah.

 

Rob Bell:

And why did you want to include this at sketchplanations.com?

 

Do you remember when it came to you, you thought, oh yeah, they're still on untardiness.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, you know what, this is somewhat unusual because I did this one as a request for somebody.

 

Rob Bell:

Did you?

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, who asked for a few different things, a lot of some business related topics, but also several on this kind of theme.

 

And I guess they wanted a way of quickly explaining and sharing some of these key points they wanted to share and let people know in their team.

 

And this was one of those topics.

 

And I remember at the time, I have done some custom sketches for people at times, but because I have a day job, I mean, it only usually makes sense if it's something which I think is useful to include in the newsletter.

 

And this is something I've experienced and could absolutely relate to.

 

And so I was like, actually, that's a great one to do.

 

And so I did it for him.

 

Thank you, Bruce.

 

And I thought it was useful to share to other people.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Does Bruce work for you by any chance?

 

Jono Hey:

He's like, yep, that's Jono walking in late.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Just maybe you could do something about wasting my time if it affects the rest of the team.

 

No, Jono is never late for anything.

 

Rob Bell:

Fortunately not.

 

Tommy, what's your relationship with lateness?

 

You run your business.

 

So how are you setting an example within your company about being punctual?

 

Or do you?

 

Tom Pellereau:

I try incredibly hard to, and I have improved significantly, but most of my entire life I have been late.

 

And actually thinking back about this, it was something that was set to me from a young age.

 

My dad, we love him.

 

He was always late for me at school.

 

I remember just always being the last one to be picked up most days.

 

I actually remember fondly the last day of school, he was about four hours late because he didn't realize school finished at 12 and no one could get hold of him or find him.

 

And it was before mobile phones and he was an hour, an hour's late.

 

And blessed him, and my family were always late.

 

And slightly my dad was like, well, it's not really very polite to be on time.

 

But that was in a sort of social context.

 

He always used to take the view that being 15 minutes late is kind of really what people want.

 

And I have struggled for a lot of my life to get beyond that and sketches like Jono's here have really helped me to significantly improve, but it's very difficult.

 

Rob Bell:

Because there is that with it, lateness within different cultures can be interpreted differently.

 

So I was reading somewhere that in countries, for example, Germany, South Korea or Japan, if you're not 10 minutes early for a meeting, then you're deemed to be late for it.

 

And I guess that's in a professional sense, but I don't know if that carries over into kind of social life as well.

 

Whereas in Saudi Arabia, apparently lateness is a sign of seniority.

 

So it's interesting how it has these different positions within different cultures, but every company has a culture.

 

So I was wondering what do you think your company culture on punctuality is, Tom?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Unfortunately, the company culture is probably from me.

 

And so we are regularly late.

 

And I now really struggle to get people to be on time for internal meetings.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Because often I get called in something and then I am late for it, which is a struggle, but it sort of really pains me.

 

But then I know I'm probably the worst in it.

 

And I slightly feel that these podcasts, with thubbing, with optimism bias, with Costa being late recently, you and Jono are actually just sort of, you know, got a subtle hint system going on to try and improve me as an individual.

 

It's like a self-help system that's going on.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, listen, I mean, I'm not great at this at all.

 

I have previously been regularly late for stuff all the time, and I still am a little bit.

 

But again, yeah, like you, I'm really conscious of it and I want to be better and I try to be better, but I always feel like I'm really rushing around to leave on time or to get somewhere or having to sprint from the tube station to wherever it is on the other side, to be there on time, even though you're a sweaty mess, that kind of thing.

 

Now, I sent around a little kind of, you know, one of those crappy quiz.

 

No, I'm not going to call it crappy.

 

I sent around a very quick little quiz earlier for you guys to just answer a few questions and see where you are within the scale of where people are with punctuality.

 

Did you manage to do it?

 

Jono Hey:

I did.

 

Rob Bell:

Where did you, I'll go first.

 

So mine came out as option C, which means that I'm there with 20% of the populations in that I am regularly late.

 

Jono?

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, I was in the middle.

 

It's kind of like a bell curve, right?

 

Yeah.

 

Which was most people in the middle.

 

So I don't, apparently, I don't find it too difficult to be on time.

 

And it was good for me to try and understand both of the opposite sides, the people who like to be super early and the people who always struggle to be late.

 

So that is what would be good for me.

 

Rob Bell:

Tommy, can we guess?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, I was A, I was always A, no.

 

I was in C, but I could sense also, by the way the questions were, that I had the opportunity to be even more of a C if I'd meant to be.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, sense it yourself.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Um.

 

Now, I do have an important thing to mention on this, is that someone gave me a wise words the other day, in the fact, about a year ago, saying, the thing about being on time, right, is that you have to be comfortable with the fact you are therefore gonna be early, potentially half the time, if not more.

 

See.

 

Rob Bell:

Because other people are late.

 

Tom Pellereau:

No, in the fact that to get to something on time, you can't be that accurate as to, if your minimum is on time, you're therefore gonna be prepared.

 

You're gonna be five, 10, 15 minutes early for stuff.

 

And I think a lot of people that all know are gonna use that time, you know, productively.

 

To be on time means you have to be prepared to be early a lot of the time.

 

And you just have to get comfortable.

 

Rob Bell:

Which is a real mind shift, right, from where you and I are.

 

And I correct myself, so it's not, in that third category, we're 20% of the people who are late more often than they'd like to admit are the words that was used.

 

Which I can sit behind and say, yeah, okay, that is probably right.

 

Yeah, so that's interesting.

 

So yeah, if you're gonna be on time, you're gonna have to be prepared to have time on your hands when you get there.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, it reminds me, I don't know if you ever read this article, it was like, if you've never missed a flight, then you're spending too much time in airports.

 

You ever heard that?

 

So, which is basically like, in order to not miss any flights, you have to really err on the side of being super early, which means you are going to be spending a lot of time in airports.

 

And so maybe some people would prefer to optimize, not waste all that time in airports, but miss the odd flight as a result.

 

Rob Bell:

And we touched on this a couple of weeks ago in the episode on optimism bias, I think, and stories of when we've missed flights.

 

Do you know what, Jono?

 

This is reminding me of something.

 

I met you in central London once and we were gonna go for a drink somewhere.

 

And I arrived probably slightly after the time that we'd said.

 

And you were there, do you know what you're doing?

 

You were across the other side of the road from the bar that we were gonna go into with your sketchbook and you're doing a little sketch of it.

 

Yes, you were.

 

Jono Hey:

Well, there you go, making the most of the time.

 

Actually, I feel like with phones these days, it's easy to make the most of any time and you don't feel that.

 

I mean, to be honest, as I said before, I love being in airports and I could happily sit in there and get in a coffee and read a new book in an airport for a couple of hours before a flight sounds delightful to me.

 

Yeah.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Then you've got to be careful.

 

Because the two times I've missed flights, I was actually in the airport.

 

I just wasn't in the right place at the right time, unfortunately.

 

So, lovely places to hang out.

 

Keep an eye.

 

Jono Hey:

But I think it's a bit different, like when a lot of where I work is remote now, and I notice that I'm not quite as good if it's like an internal meeting and we're meeting online.

 

Because I know that, well, two things.

 

One is that they didn't go massively out of their way to come and meet me.

 

So it's not like they took a train, trekked into central London, or stayed the night in a hotel or whatever.

 

So that sort of reduced the stakes a bit.

 

And the other thing is, if I'm a few minutes late, well, they were probably working on their computer anyway.

 

I know that, to your dad's point, if somebody's a few minutes late to the meeting and I was doing something, I'd be like, okay, well, I'll do a few bits.

 

I'll carry on.

 

And that's much easier when you haven't messed up your day to go into a coffee shop or meet somewhere, which is inconvenient to you, I think.

 

So I wonder if, I feel like it changes a little bit the inconvenience to the other person.

 

Rob Bell:

Yes, I think you're right.

 

So it's very much about the situation in terms of how prepared you might be for something.

 

So one of the biggest things to, I think, try and not be late for would be a job interview, something like that, because it can give an impression.

 

If you're meeting people for the first time, whether that's online, actually, or elsewhere, if you are late and this is their first impression of you, first impressions do count, don't they?

 

Yeah.

 

So I think, so there are quite a few factors that we all probably subconsciously calculate in the, I don't know, hour, half hour, 15 minutes before we are supposed to be somewhere or we are supposed to leave to get somewhere, depending on what that situation is.

 

Jono Hey:

You're right.

 

It's sort of going on in your head.

 

So it goes back a bit to like a job interview.

 

It's very much your buying or selling point, Tom.

 

So I think a lot of it is about who's got the power in the situation.

 

So if you're buying and you don't necessarily think you need what they're buying, then you're almost doing them a favour to if you turn up and listen kind of thing.

 

So it can rub off into whether or not you're like, oh, I've rushed to this thing or I don't.

 

And a job interview, obviously, if you want the job, then they are the ones with the power.

 

And so you're more likely to make sure that you're on time.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, I've had a couple of it.

 

And people come to me to interviews and they've been late.

 

And I'm like, sort of what is even the point in having this interview?

 

If you're gonna be late for the interview.

 

Like my feeling is you just cannot be late for an interview.

 

That if you have to arrive an hour early, you do that and you just go around the corner and hide.

 

Like I have never ever been late for a Lord Trugger board meeting.

 

I'm always there at least one, if not two hours early to make sure.

 

Now the only problem with that is occasionally he'll then see me and I'm there to be like, should we start early then?

 

And so I've found that I've actually sort of stay a little bit around the corner because I don't want to necessarily start early.

 

I just want to make sure I am definitely there ready to go at least 15 minutes early.

 

But there are certain things which you just don't, can't be late for.

 

And there are things where it's maybe a little bit more of a balance, but certainly.

 

Jono Hey:

Do you know that, I think it was a basketball player or a sports player who said something like, if you're early, you're on time.

 

If you're on time, you're late.

 

And if you're late, you didn't want to be there.

 

And that's sort of, I think what shows, if you're late for a job interview, where you obviously didn't care that much, otherwise you would have been here.

 

Rob Bell:

It's that, isn't it?

 

Fundamentally, it is that.

 

And Tommy and I sat here going, oh, we have this self-realization of what awful people we are.

 

Jono Hey:

Well, maybe, I think one of the, so the important bit about the sketch really is not having to dig at anybody being late for their own appointments, right?

 

That's up to them.

 

If they don't value getting to the dentist on time, that's up to them.

 

It's their loss.

 

This is really about underestimating everybody else's collective waste of time.

 

So this is actually quite a small example, the one in the sketch, which is like 10 people in a boardroom who you're messing about, I don't know, boardroom, but long meeting.

 

I think another one which comes up a fair bit, and actually, I couldn't find it, but Seth Godin had a nice little post about it, and he gave the example of if you hold a train door of a full train, even for like 20 seconds to let one person on, let's say, because they were running down the stairs, you have just potentially delayed the 2000 people who are on that train by the 20 seconds.

 

And so you have to always have to weigh in mind, well, what am I, obviously, that's a lovely thing to do for the person who is stressing to get the train.

 

Was it worth the X number of hours that you just lost for the people on the train who might now be a little bit late to something?

 

And I think it extends, like if you keep a theater full of people waiting for an extra 10 minutes, that's a lot of time that you've used up.

 

I remember once we had, at a previous company, we had a visit by a VIP, turned out to be a politician, and it was all arranged, and everybody had everything sort of scripted and their parts, and you're going to be here, and then we'll show them that, and you'll bring them in, and we'll go around the office in this order.

 

And literally nothing happened in the two days before, if you were involved in meeting them.

 

And then 10 minutes before, they said, oh, sorry, he's not going to turn up.

 

What a colossal waste of time.

 

And if you're, I mean, it's probably tending to much bigger, more important things, but that's kind of the thing, isn't it?

 

That's the power.

 

It's like, well, we were with this teeny little thing, not very important to them.

 

And this other thing was much more important.

 

And so we run around and waste all our time, and he maximizes every minute, doing the most important thing.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

Jono Hey:

So what is it about being fashionably late?

 

And why is it fashionable?

 

Rob Bell:

Well, does this come down to what you think your dad was alluding to, Tommy, and that it's rude socially, it's rude to turn up on time?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Maybe.

 

Is it also the power thing or the coolness thing?

 

You know, the most important people arrive hours and hours late because they've got other parties they've got to be at or something.

 

Rob Bell:

You've been at other parties.

 

Jono Hey:

I do have a thing, like if I'm meeting at a place, I'll try and be early, but if you're meeting at seven and you're ready at seven, like outside, should you, you know, the moment the clock strikes seven, should you be in the doorbell or is that a bit much?

 

And so I do sometimes I put myself in the other people's shoes and think, well, if I was them, I might still be like getting stuff ready.

 

I might appreciate if somebody was a few minutes late.

 

So I'll ring the bell at seven, eight, two.

 

Rob Bell:

This was one of the questions in that little quiz, I think about how do you feel if people come around to your house and they're late, and you're like, actually, it's all right, it's quite good.

 

Actually, I don't mind it.

 

It gives me a little bit more time just to get things ready.

 

So I think, well, that's the way I saw it.

 

And I think that's the other side of what you're talking about there, Jono.

 

Yeah.

 

Jono Hey:

I think the other group of people were ready.

 

And they're like, where the hell is Rob?

 

Rob Bell:

It's now seven.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, we could have been going for...

 

Tom Pellereau:

Is there like a self-selection thing is you end up being friends with people who have some reviews on this?

 

Rob Bell:

Maybe, because you just frustrate the hell out of each other.

 

Mainly, it's the guys in group C frustrating the people in group A, right?

 

Because I don't think I would get frustrated by someone who's always on time.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, they just don't want to hang out with you anymore.

 

Jono Hey:

It reminded me of that one where, it's a bit like when you run from a bear, you don't have to run faster than a bear.

 

You just have to run faster than the slowest guy running from the bear.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

Jono Hey:

And I think about that, something particularly with an online meeting, like if you join the meeting, even two seconds before somebody else, well, then you were there.

 

You could have been there.

 

Rob Bell:

It does make you feel good when someone comes in after.

 

Jono Hey:

I think a related one, I mentioned that one of this sketch was one of a sort of set.

 

And another one, which is quite related, which is like, know your tech.

 

And the point with that one was like, if you're going to give a presentation or something, if you're the one in charge of hosting something, no, there's not really any excuse for like not knowing how to connect the thing or get the sound working or something like if it's important.

 

Test.

 

Learn it.

 

Because otherwise you're doing exactly what happens with turning up 10 minutes late is you're using up everybody's time while you fix stuff.

 

I know a lot of people probably don't like that because it can be a bit daunting, but I mean, the recipe is you just got to learn it.

 

You just got to get good at it.

 

Like practice, you know.

 

Rob Bell:

Practice, rehearse.

 

Jono Hey:

Get there 10 minutes early and get everything set up.

 

And I, you know, don't always manage it, but when it really counts, normally it would do, yeah.

 

Rob Bell:

That reminded me of a story I heard about the late Australian comedian, Barry Humphreys, where he would be at the theater obviously early before his gig, and he'd bring in the staff of the theater, and he'd brief them, especially the stewards, that if people did arrive late, that they should usher the latecomers in through the very front of the auditorium so that everybody would see them, so that he could build that into his act.

 

Not, it wasn't really to punish them, but it was to build it into his act, because, you know, he'd have his little shtick and his little kind of repartee with them.

 

Jono Hey:

That's very clever, isn't it?

 

And I bet those people probably weren't late to the next show either.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

 

So if we're talking about the cost of being late, we've talked about, you know, other people's time, but there was some research done, apparently, by Heathrow Express in 2012 that looked at the financial cost of people being late.

 

So apparently, according to this research, it costs the UK economy, this was in 2012, nine billion pounds a year.

 

But there was another report summary I read about tardiness costing the US economy three billion dollars a year.

 

So there's a bit of a misbalance there.

 

Let's just say billions of pounds from economies wasted every year by people being late.

 

So there's that financial cost, there's the time cost.

 

And then, I mean, we touched on it earlier about, I guess, people's impressions of you.

 

And if you're working in a team, I guess there's a kind of morale type thing if maybe the lead is late, or somebody within the team is continuously late, it could probably be a bit of a drag and quite demotivating maybe.

 

So there's that kind of cost as well.

 

Jono Hey:

I mean, apart from it being a bit annoying, if there's a few of you, I think you gradually pick up on whether or not that person's respecting your time.

 

Yeah.

 

Really, like, why should we wait here?

 

Or like, we can't do anything when they're not here.

 

That's kind of annoying after a while.

 

And like, they don't really care that much.

 

I think you definitely, definitely can get that sense.

 

I find I do, I don't like being not prepared for things.

 

Sorry.

 

I like being prepared for things is an easy way to say that.

 

To avoid the double negative.

 

And I found that I will sometimes, so the times when, the times that stress me most out when I'm late is when I haven't had time fully to prepare.

 

And occasionally I will swap the little bit of preparation time for the late time.

 

So I'd rather arrive a couple of minutes late, but with my thoughts collected and ready to be useful than on time and not actually be ready and be flustered trying to get stuff across.

 

I mean, maybe that equals out, right?

 

Like perhaps I'm gonna do a better job while I'm there.

 

And that's respect for their time rather than wasting their time while I get my thoughts together in the meeting.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, I'm glad you say that, Jono, because you do seem quite prepared for this podcast, but who was here on time and who arrived a minute late?

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, a little compression.

 

And I was using that time to prepare.

 

Rob Bell:

I'm sure you were.

 

I'm sure you were, and it shows.

 

So in a way, thank you for being late.

 

Jono Hey:

It's because I respect your time that I was two minutes late.

 

Rob Bell:

I like that.

 

I like that.

 

So some techniques to try and improve your tardiness, your timekeeping, I guess.

 

So one, which I really, really like, is to try and involve others if they aren't already.

 

So if you're going somewhere, maybe offer somebody a lift if you're driving.

 

So then you've made a commitment to somebody else to pick them up at a certain time.

 

Or if you, I mean, finances come into this one a little bit, but if you're going to the airport, book a taxi.

 

So then the taxi will be there at a time.

 

And then you've got to go because the taxi's there, as opposed to in your own time, I'll get the train or I'll make my own way there, or I'll drive there, whatever it is.

 

So that was one to commit to others or involve other people within that.

 

And I'm sure there are loads of different techniques that people can suggest to help improve.

 

Jono Hey:

I really like the one about giving other people a lift, for example, it's kind of like using this whole principle and flicking it to be helpful for you, isn't it?

 

Like, because you don't want to waste their time as well, and because you respect their time more than perhaps you respect your own time, you're gonna make sure that you're on time for them.

 

And that helps you.

 

It's quite a handy one.

 

Rob Bell:

Any other burning issues anyone wants to make about the cost of being late?

 

Tom Pellereau:

I'm sorry.

 

Just that, just for us.

 

Rob Bell:

For being late.

 

Is that to everybody who you've been late for?

 

Jono Hey:

To my family and my mother and mum, I'm sorry.

 

Rob Bell:

And for the people who are meeting tomorrow in advance, I'm sorry.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I am trying to improve.

 

Rob Bell:

Thank you, Tommy.

 

Jono Hey:

Maybe one thing I was thinking was that actually, I was thinking I'm more likely to be on time for other people than I am for myself, for my own stuff.

 

And I don't quite know what that says.

 

Does it say I don't really respect my own time as much as I respect other people?

 

Rob Bell:

I don't think it does because the fact that you, if you're late for yourself, it probably means that you've been busying yourself with other stuff that you deemed important at that time.

 

Jono Hey:

Does it?

 

Rob Bell:

And prioritize...

 

I'm trying to help you out.

 

Jono Hey:

I don't think you can help me.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, there you go.

 

There's a little insight into how we all tend to operate with regards to timekeeping.

 

We'd love to know what you guys think about that.

 

Oh, look, we're not going to be the only ones out there who...

 

I think there will be people listening who could relate to Tommy and mine kind of ways of operating, and as well as probably more people who can relate to how Jono tends to operate.

 

But we'd love to know what you guys think about it.

 

You can send your emails to hello at sketchplanations.com or, as I've said many times before, you can leave us comments and messages and stuff on our social media channels.

 

What's the worst thing you've been late for?

 

How did you feel about keeping others waiting for you?

 

Let us know.

 

We've got a few messages to get through in a moment based on last week's episode, so stay tuned for that.

 

And next week, we're going to bash through another quickfire round based on some of Jono's sketches that cover some fun and some interesting points on language and a few intriguing specific words in the English dictionary as well.

 

And I've learnt so much from those types of sketches, so I'm looking forward to that.

 

Make sure you don't miss it next week.

 

But before we get into the post bag, let me reassure you that whether you're early, on time or genuinely late, we think you're great.

 

Right, back in a sec.

 

Right then, let's get into the post bag.

 

And this week, we're going to be delving into the post bag from the last couple of episodes because I was away last week and I let the whole team down by going on holiday.

 

So I'm sorry.

 

All right.

 

I'm sorry.

 

We had a lovely time.

 

Thanks for asking.

 

So we can go back a couple of weeks and we can go back to the episode on Good Hearts Law.

 

We had a good few comments in about that, which is really fun.

 

Emily sent me a message on Facebook, who is somebody I used to work with when I worked for a company called the Energy Saving Trust.

 

Emily says, yes, this was much discussed during our EST Energy Saving Trust days, and she now works for the NHS and it's still pertinent in the NHS.

 

And she says, I might make people I work with listen to this episode.

 

So, yeah, go ahead, Emily.

 

But yeah, that those those KPIs that we used to have at the Energy Saving Trust were very much in my mind when I was thinking about this episode on Good Heart's Law.

 

What else did we have, guys?

 

Tom Pellereau:

I had a message from a TA Bruton with regards to Good Heart's Law episode asking Rob, if you've been contacted by any good lawyers with reference to some of the comments.

 

Rob Bell:

Oh, yeah, very good.

 

Yeah, I did get I did get a little bit of heat actually from various people.

 

I think it was on Instagram as well.

 

About my sweeping comments I made on lawyers, that only the good ones make their money from finding loopholes.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah.

 

Rob Bell:

I am feeling the heat a little bit.

 

Jono Hey:

It's getting a little hot in here already, isn't it?

 

Rob Bell:

Shall we move on quickly?

 

Jono, when I was looking through, I also noticed there were quite a few comments on Twitter when you originally posted your sketch of Our Good Heart's Law, Jono.

 

People referencing that they noticed it in education, in healthcare design, in politics, in wealth management.

 

And I also saw that it had been translated into French and what I think was Dutch as well.

 

So that's pretty cool.

 

Because I know that France rates number five and Netherlands rates number 12 in our rankings on where our listeners are from.

 

So, you know, that's that's great.

 

Jono Hey:

Probably because of that.

 

Rob Bell:

It probably is.

 

It probably is.

 

And Graham C on Twitter sent a message saying that Good Heart's Law is definitely a real thing.

 

When they started measuring trains by how late they were, they simply increased travel times in the time.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, I feel like we've really seen that the fact that the trains used to be quicker, now they're slower and technically more on time.

 

It's like, is that really?

 

It's like the worst of both worlds, isn't it?

 

Rob Bell:

But I mean, what all of this reinforces for me is that, as we discussed in the podcast a couple of weeks ago, it's everywhere, right?

 

It's happening all the time, all around us.

 

It's everywhere.

 

So thanks very much for those guys.

 

Jono, moving on then to last week's episode on cross modal perception.

 

Actually, before we do that, as I said, I was on holiday, and part of that holiday, I was in Switzerland, where I made my own observation.

 

I made an observation with an advertisement poster for a Swiss telecom company that refers back to one of the sketches we talked about in our quickfire round of blout reduplication.

 

It turns out it's international.

 

It doesn't only happen in English, because the slogan for this Swiss telecom company was blie, bla, bleu, as in, like, bla, bla, bla, I guess.

 

Yeah, which is the I followed by the A followed by the O.

 

Jono Hey:

It's blis, bla, splosh.

 

Rob Bell:

Exactly.

 

Jono Hey:

Instead of bla, bla, blie.

 

It's harder to say.

 

Rob Bell:

So even and this was in a French speaking part of Switzerland.

 

So there you go.

 

There you go.

 

But yeah, cross modal perception.

 

Did you chaps have anything in on that?

 

Jono Hey:

I had found an article, actually, somebody shared with me.

 

She's because we were talking about plane food and how food actually tastes different when you're in a plane.

 

And the excerpt from the article was, Even the sound of the engine changes the way food tastes.

 

Exposure to the background noise of an aeroplane, which can reach 80 to 85 decibels, dulls your sensitivity to salty and sugary flavors while enhancing your perception of the proteinous fifth taste, umami.

 

This explains the enduring love affair between air passengers and tomato juice, which is ordered as much as beer in flight.

 

To drink it in the sky, it tastes richer, more savory and less acidic.

 

Rob Bell:

That's amazing.

 

Jono Hey:

That is good, isn't it?

 

I mean, I order it on planes.

 

Rob Bell:

And where else do you order it?

 

Jono Hey:

Nowhere.

 

Rob Bell:

Nowhere.

 

That's absolutely true.

 

Like I have a real hankering for it when the trolley comes through.

 

Jono Hey:

Maybe we should sit next to like a loud coffee machine in a cafe, and then you'd really appreciate the tomato juice as well.

 

Rob Bell:

How many coffee places do you know serve tomato juice?

 

Jono Hey:

They're missing a trick.

 

They are.

 

For the seats next to the coffee machine at 80 decibels.

 

Rob Bell:

Yet you'd have the fridge just full.

 

Jono Hey:

Just a really loud spot.

 

Buy and get one.

 

Tom Pellereau:

They're missing a trick.

 

Rob Bell:

Guys, we should keep this quiet and open up our own chain.

 

That's amazing.

 

Jono Hey:

Wow.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Wow.

 

Teas and seeds.

 

Rob Bell:

I'm completely blown away by that.

 

So another comment that came in on Instagram from Prech, who I believe has messaged us before, says a couple of years ago, I started eating on a smaller plate at home.

 

I read somewhere that by doing so, you'd think you've consumed enough and would no longer crave for another serving.

 

And yes, it helped me eat less and eventually lose weight.

 

Jono Hey:

Definitely think it helps you serve out less as well.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

Jono Hey:

Naturally.

 

Rob Bell:

I mean, yeah, naturally.

 

Tom Pellereau:

It's called physics, I think.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, you do see people sometimes, you know salad bars, all you can eat, not all you can eat, like one serve salad bars, and they, with the small bowls you get there, create these magnificent constructions with bread sticks, or like a couple of cobs as the structure, and then you layer it with lettuce, and then you almost double, if not triple the volume, which you have to fill.

 

Jono Hey:

It's like one of those engineering assignments.

 

It's just dried pasta sticks, celery.

 

How much salad can you fit?

 

Some may be really good at that.

 

Tom Pellereau:

There's not enough building in food restaurants.

 

That would be quite good fun.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah.

 

You're not telling your kids to not play with your food, are you?

 

You're like, right, no, you're doing it all wrong.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Here.

 

Rob Bell:

I have one correction to make from...

 

When was it?

 

It was the episode when we were talking about...

 

I think it was Goodhart's Law.

 

Yeah, I have one correction to make from the introduction of Goodhart's Law as well, where my dad listened, which he doesn't normally do, but he did listen to that episode.

 

I think he was forced to because he was in the car with my sister on quite a long journey.

 

And he had a bone to pick with me when I said that he used...

 

As a scout leader, he'd let us all shoot fireworks at each other.

 

He said, that's not strictly true, is it?

 

And I had to admit that was the case.

 

No, we didn't shoot them at each other.

 

We shot them up in the air.

 

Jono Hey:

But it felt like each other.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

So there's my apology and correction.

 

Brilliant stuff.

 

Thanks, guys.

 

Very fun and always insightful as well.

 

So please.

 

And what I find, it just reaffirms stuff that the three of us can sometimes get quite enthusiastic about during the course of a podcast, specifically on topics.

 

So it's lovely to have our thoughts and some of the information that we that we talk about confirmed by you guys listening in as well.

 

So thanks for that.

 

Keep them coming in and we'll be back next week.

 

Bye for now.

 

All music on this podcast series is sourced from the very talented Franc Cinelli.

 

And you can find loads more tracks at franccinelli.com.