The 4 Pillars of Too Much

Tom Pellereau:

It comes from realising that kids, in particular, in the modern-day world, were struggling, just from having too much going on.

And it picks out the stuff, the choice, the information, and things being just too fast.

 

Jono Hey:

Let's watch a film tonight, and we sort of sit down with some food.

And then, you know, half an hour's gone, and we still haven't actually chosen what to watch, because there's just so many different things to choose from.

 

Rob Bell:

I think multitasking does kind of fall into this too much information, right, Pillar?

 

Jono Hey:

You know, if you're trying to do more than two things, you're probably drastically failing it.

You're actually burning the toast at the same time as not entertaining the child, and probably misordering that thing that you're ordering on your phone at the same time.

 

Rob Bell:

Sounds like you're speaking from experience with that particular one, Tommy.

It was very specific.

 

Jono Hey:

I have an experience of watching others, obviously.

 

Rob Bell:

Hello, and welcome to Sketchplanations, The Podcast.

This week, we're talking about the four pillars of too much.

Too much stuff, too much choice, too much information and too much speed.

But before that, there's this.

 

On June 23rd, 1983, Jack and Jill went up the hill to fetch a simple pail or bucket of water.

Having reached the summit of this incline, Jack had an accident.

 

In the mayhem and confusion, Jack's headwear was subjected to irreparable damage.

 

Initially a bystander to events, tragically Jill was soon to suffer the same fate.

 

There are unconfirmed stories that Jack attempted to mend his injuries with vinegar and brown paper, now very much ill-advised by medical professionals.

 

What really happened up there on the hill with the water in the bucket?

 

I'm ex wannabe detective Rob Bell.

 

With over a decade of parenting proficiency, Jono Hey is the old King Cole of credibility.

 

And back from his own downfall of doom, the Humpty Dumpty of dependability, Tom Pellereau.

 

Together this is your trustworthy team that brings you real nursery crimes coming soon.

 

Good evening, gents.

 

Jono Hey:

I can understand now why you were so excited about getting into that.

 

Rob Bell:

What are you talking about?

 

Tom Pellereau:

We have to remind people this is a Sketchplanations podcast.

 

Just to make sure.

 

Rob Bell:

I get carried away and a bit lost, actually, sometimes, yeah.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I didn't realise those extra verses for Jack and Jill.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, I know.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Gosh.

 

Rob Bell:

I seem to remember as a kid the one about the brown paper and vinegar.

 

I do kind of remember that, but I couldn't remember it off the top of my bunt, so I had to look that one up.

 

But nursery rhymes, I assume they've been a part of all of our lives.

 

In fact, the way I see it, they're probably kind of part of your life at three different times of your life, right?

 

When you're a kid, if you become a parent, and then if you become a grandparent, I reckon.

 

Nursery rhymes, you know, they've stood the test of time, haven't they?

 

They're still kicking about.

 

Tom Pellereau:

They were a bit like, like you say, they just go around in those fixed phases of life.

 

They remind me of playground games, and stuff that happens in primary school where you learn it from the year above you, and then you teach it to the year below you.

 

And primary schools just get like stuck in these phases of these games that last forever.

 

And probably each school like learns their own sort of games.

 

And you know, decades later, they're still playing and calling the same game and everybody else is like, what are you doing?

 

Rob Bell:

But I bet there are the same games that are played in different primary school playgrounds around the country, around the world.

 

The same game, but it got completely different names.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I'm sure that's true.

 

Rob Bell:

I'd love to, next time we're together, I'd love to play the game that I played a lot at primary school.

 

We called it Wrecky.

 

It's just a tennis ball.

 

I'd love to play that with you guys.

 

I think it'd be brilliant fun.

 

Jono Hey:

Sounds good.

 

I've never played that before.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, you might have.

 

It just might have a different name.

 

Jono Hey:

Other people call it tennis.

 

Rob Bell:

Have you boys got any favourite nursery rhymes?

 

I mean, you've been in and around them, I'm assuming more recently than I have.

 

Tom Pellereau:

For me, when the kids are really little, they're just like something that they just entertain really little kids.

 

And when they're babies, just anything, you just need to sing anything.

 

You can literally sing whatever you want to, but you need something to sing.

 

And so, you know, I wish I'd written them all down, actually, all the little songs, the little mad songs that you sing to while they're a little baby, because I've forgotten them all now.

 

And just like you say, they disappear.

 

Jono Hey:

I've forgotten most of the baby age period, which is just sort of a blur of days, of three or four years of my life.

 

Fatigue.

 

Of all this.

 

London Bridge is falling down.

 

It always, for some reason, seems a very memorable one.

 

A tissue and a tissue, they all fall down and that sort of stuff.

 

My mum was very good at them, she would sing them and lullabies and that sort of stuff.

 

But I don't seem to have many to my mind that I can think of, I'm sorry, Rob.

 

Rob Bell:

Now the old, was it Hey Diddle Diddle, need to get this right, the Hey Diddle Diddle, the cat and the fiddle, the cow jumped over the moon, the little dog laughed to see such sports and the dish ran away with the spoon.

 

I mean, what the hell is that all about?

 

Jono Hey:

It's mental, isn't it?

 

Rob Bell:

I'd love to have seen like a scan of my brain, as I heard that for the first time, trying to figure out what world is this?

 

Jono Hey:

That's not helpful, is it really?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Your parents are singing that to you smiling, you're like, okay, whatever you say.

 

All right.

 

I mean, they're all a bit mad, right?

 

Yeah, none of them really make any, I mean, they all have some like some weird story behind them as to where they came from originally, but they're all a bit, often they're quite a bit gruesome as well, I don't know, it's a bit strange.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, because there's nursery rhymes and then there's fairy tales, right?

 

And there's fairy tales written by, I mean, Hans Christian Andersen was one of the large authors of fairy tales, but then also it's The Brothers Grimm, right?

 

Some of their stories are, they're brutal, they're like horror stories.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Hansel and Gretel.

 

Jono Hey:

But they're to try and get kids to like go to bed, basically, they're just to terrify them into going to sleep or something.

 

I'm not sure that's a great approach, but...

 

Rob Bell:

They're proper dark plots, you've got cannibalism, you've got infanticide, you've got revenge, you've got gangs of murderers severed body parts.

 

It's crazy.

 

Is this what you want to be sending your kids off to bed with?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Cutting stomachs open and finding people inside, that kind of thing.

 

Yeah.

 

I don't feel like the morals are always that rewarding, you know, ways to live your life.

 

Rapunzel and things like that.

 

I'm not sure what you're supposed to take away from some of these in order to make yourself a better person.

 

Rob Bell:

Have nightmares.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I looked for books of Buddhist children's stories.

 

Because I think very often the morals in those are really good.

 

I didn't really find anything, so I think there's a gap.

 

Rob Bell:

Well you want to write some Buddhist children's stories?

 

Tom Pellereau:

No, you really want to find some and then write them down and share them.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, listen, the time I've allocated this week for nursery rhymes is over.

 

It's time for the childishness to really begin.

 

It's time for the podcast.

 

Let's go.

 

<v SPEAKER_6>Go.

 

This week, we're discussing Jono's sketch that covers The 4 Pillars of Too Much, or I've also seen it referred to as The 4 Pillars of Excess.

 

And it relates to a philosophy that whilst much of something can be great, too much of it can be a real burden.

 

Now before we get going, a quick reminder that you should be able to see this sketch as the artwork for the episode, but if not, I've included a link in the podcast description.

 

And you can find all of Jono's sketches that we talk about in the podcast series, as well as many, many more at sketchplanations.com.

 

And if you've seen a sketch on there that you'd like us to cover in an episode, then let us know.

 

You can email us with your suggestions, as well as any comments or stories from your own experience of the topics that we cover to hello at sketchplanations.com.

 

And we'll be going through your messages from the last week at the very end of the podcast.

 

All right then, Jono.

 

The 4 Pillars of Too Much.

 

Firstly, do you want to tell us what those 4 Pillars are?

 

And then let's talk about how you came across this.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, for sure.

 

A really simple sketch.

 

But the 4 Pillars of Too Much are too much stuff, too much or too many choices, too much information and too fast.

 

Rob Bell:

And this is kind of as it applies to life generally, right?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Well, yes, I learned about it.

 

It's an idea from the author of the book called Simplicity Parenting, which I was reading when the kids were much smaller.

 

And it comes from essentially like realizing that people in kids in particular in modern day world was struggling just from having too much going on.

 

And he picks out these four different aspects, the stuff, the choice, the information and things being just too fast and advocates essentially a slowing down of everything.

 

And then actually the power of having less in your life is actually a really positive thing in many cases.

 

So that's where I learned it from.

 

Rob Bell:

So it's simplifying, it's stripping back and slowing down, I guess that kind of feeling.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, and obviously the book was about parenting, but I don't feel like it has to be, I feel like it applies to be just as much now.

 

And maybe it affects kids even more, maybe, but maybe not, maybe it affects adults just as much.

 

Rob Bell:

I think maybe it might affect kids more because stuff's happening to them.

 

I mean, we've talked about in previous episodes how as a kid you have less control over your life because you're not making the ultimate decisions about what you do and what you get up to.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I mean, I think certainly as parents, you have the ability to control a lot of that for your children.

 

And so, yeah, I mean, in that sense, it totally makes sense.

 

But as parents, as people, we can also control a lot of the stuff in our own lives.

 

And that, my general experience is probably we all benefit from a little bit of less very often.

 

Jono Hey:

I think there's a difference as well.

 

As adults, we get quite good at ignoring things or not seeing things.

 

Whereas as thinkers, children, you could just kind of, possibly because so much more is new, it's really kind of bewildering.

 

Whereas adults, I think we get quite good at being like, oh yeah, you know, that's just, whereas kids are like, oh my gosh, there's a bug on the floor here, and they have to stop and look at it and play with it for ages.

 

Whereas we're like, don't even notice it because we're kind of moving through the world, I think.

 

Maybe at a greater speed as well.

 

Rob Bell:

Tommy, do you think these four pillars, too much stuff, too much choice, too much information, things happening too fast, do you think there's sometimes a draw to want more stuff?

 

More choice, more information?

 

Things happen fast.

 

Do you think as adults, there's a kind of a desire to have all of this stuff?

 

Jono Hey:

Well, as often is the case, it's a contradiction, right?

 

And often the most powerful things are, like we want to have nice chilled lives with not too much going on.

 

But the second that we realize that Saturday afternoon, we've got nothing booked, we therefore find ourselves looking to book tennis or book swimming or, but you know, and then we're kind of rushing from this to the other, to the other.

 

And we all kind of love to have this sort of, you know, simple house with not too much out.

 

But then we go to the shops and we see a new coffee table or a new picture frame.

 

We're like, oh, wouldn't that look lovely on the side?

 

And so we constantly in this dichotomy of cramming our life with stuff, but also wishing we weren't and cramming our house with stuff, but clearing out at the same time.

 

And they're sort of yin, the yang.

 

The contradiction is often at play.

 

Rob Bell:

It's funny, isn't it?

 

Because we're sitting here now and we all know it.

 

We probably know that our house is, for example, full of stuff that we don't necessarily need or don't necessarily use that often, yet we've put them there.

 

Jono Hey:

Exactly.

 

And I remember personally watching a program about some psychologist that was trying to help a family with a child with ADHD or maybe even Asperger's, going beyond that.

 

And when I grew up, there was a growing potential link between dyslexics and ADHD and this sort of potentially bit of a spectrum there.

 

And I remember watching this program, what they did is they basically built a little outhouse for this child and it was completely white.

 

And it was a door that you go in and they painted this room completely white and the parent was only allowed to take the child with one toy in there.

 

And I just remember that feeling of watching this child going into this really calm, clear room with no extra distraction and focus really helped the child churn out.

 

And watching that and going, that felt really appealing to me.

 

So since I always try, but I fail, to try and simplify my surroundings and I do find it really, really calming.

 

So these 4 Pillars for me are very, very emotive, very special, very good to be aware of.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Rob, can I ask, I was quite happy to see that you chose this as a sketch topic for the podcast.

 

And also the opposite.

 

I was like, it's quite cringe-worthy from an old sketch point of view.

 

Rob Bell:

Let's talk about that very quickly now.

 

This is one of your early, early sketches.

 

Tom Pellereau:

It is.

 

Rob Bell:

And so it's not, it's very different to the style of the sketches that you do now.

 

It's a quick sketch, right?

 

Tom Pellereau:

You probably lost this out really quickly.

 

It was one a day, no corrections, straight in the notebook.

 

But I was intrigued what made you choose it.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

What I like to do when I'm looking at sketches and thinking about what might work well in the podcast is think about would we all have enough to talk about it?

 

But then would our listeners also, would it give them something to think about?

 

And I think these four pillars absolutely did.

 

And that was just from the very early sketch, which is the beauty of your sketches and of Sketchplanations, Jono.

 

You can see the sketch and you kind of get what's happening and your brain starts thinking about it very, very quickly.

 

I mean, this is the beauty of Sketchplanations.

 

That's why I chose it.

 

I thought there was enough to talk about and I thought it's something that probably applies to a lot of people.

 

But I thought we could have a little punch through each of them individually.

 

So the first one is too much stuff.

 

As you said something like commerce and capitalism like drives a desire for more stuff, right?

 

And there is so much, I'm looking in our rooms behind us.

 

We've all got stuff around us.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, hundreds of things.

 

I did some research on things like storage and just dealing with your stuff before for a project.

 

And one of the realizations for me was that it's so much easier to get stuff in than it is to get it out.

 

Rob Bell:

Do you mean in terms of the systems that are there to encourage that?

 

And assist with that?

 

Tom Pellereau:

There's very little to assist with the out unless it's rubbish or recycling.

 

Recycling is getting a bit better, right?

 

But unless it's rubbish, you're gonna throw it away.

 

It's effort to get it out, whereas it's always easy to go to the shop and buy.

 

It's a bookshelf behind me.

 

At the top is a row of books, ones that I've read, which are time to move on.

 

It's more effort for me to do that than it is to order another book on Amazon or wherever.

 

Jono Hey:

Although there are increasing number of ways of doing it, like eBay started it, Vintedoo.

 

There's a great one for books.

 

You don't get much, but you get like 40p for books, but they are coming.

 

But as you say, it's very much an asymmetric scenario.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I think so.

 

And also it's just much more sort of fun, isn't it?

 

It's like it's much easier to get new things in.

 

It's exciting to get new things in.

 

It's not as exciting.

 

You were getting rid of things recently, weren't you, Robert?

 

Rob Bell:

I am trying to get rid of some furniture.

 

So I'm getting rid of some sofas and coffee tables because I'm renovating one of the rooms in the house.

 

And I've taken to Gumtree and to Freecycle, but it's quite an effort.

 

It's quite an effort.

 

You put an ad up and I'm giving it away for free.

 

And you put an ad up and you get a few responses and we get back to them as quick as you can.

 

Say, yeah, it's all available.

 

Let me know what you want.

 

And when you're available to come around, have a look and take them away.

 

And most of the time you don't hear back from them.

 

It's difficult.

 

Tom Pellereau:

But how does it feel when you got rid of it?

 

Rob Bell:

It feels good.

 

Jono Hey:

I love it.

 

Yeah.

 

Rob Bell:

It feels good.

 

Although I did have to help somebody carry a sofa about half a mile up the road the other day.

 

Because I could not, in good conscience, see them struggle up the road with it.

 

So I gave them a helping hand.

 

Jono Hey:

Which she loved doing as well.

 

Rob Bell:

Come on.

 

It was all good.

 

Jono Hey:

Resting things.

 

Rob Bell:

But with things like books, right?

 

Could you implement a one in one out policy where if you buy a new book, there's one that's got to go somewhere to a charity shop or, you know, as Tommy was saying, through eBay or Vinted or whatever.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I mean, absolutely.

 

Absolutely, you can.

 

Just got to do it.

 

It's much easier not to do it, I think.

 

Jono Hey:

Although Jono, sometimes I do think, I wonder if we'll be able to continue to throw things away in the way that we currently do.

 

Like we've done a few house clear outs here, Sarah and I are pretty militant about it actually.

 

And sometimes I think, oh my gosh, we just filled the car full of stuff to take to the sort of recycling the junk place.

 

And it's not gonna cost us anything to get rid of this, thank goodness, because possibly I'd really consider doing it if it did.

 

But you wonder if that will continue or how long it will continue for.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, I really like something I saw in a documentary, it was that you can't throw something away, there is no away.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah.

 

Tom Pellereau:

It's all here.

 

And as you say, if it costs you more money to get rid of it, you think twice about getting it in.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah.

 

Tom Pellereau:

That said, it's still easier to get it in and it's exciting to get it in.

 

Rob Bell:

I think we're starting to touch on something that I know we all have a concern for, which is the environmental aspect of stuff, right?

 

And continuously accumulating stuff.

 

Right, that stuff has had to come from somewhere, it's had to be produced and there's energy and there's a climate effect of more stuff, right?

 

I'm certainly aware of that and that does prevent me from getting some stuff.

 

I'm quite happy to keep making do with stuff that doesn't work quite as well as it could do or should do.

 

Because I don't want more stuff or new stuff.

 

Well, it does kind of work, but just, you know, it's a bit of a knack to it.

 

Jono Hey:

Do you personally have a one-in-one-out about stuff?

 

Because it kind of feels like for stuff to get into your life takes a lot of, like, it's really gonna be worth it for you.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, yeah, I don't act on a whim, that's for sure.

 

Jono Hey:

You're not really an accumulator of stuff in any shape or form, are you?

 

Rob Bell:

Well, I don't know.

 

I could do with a clear out, but doing a clear out hurts me.

 

I hate, I have to really sign myself up for it.

 

It's like, right, don't think about this too much, because for sentimental reasons and for reasons I'm talking about there, I do get attached to stuff.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I've got a tip for you.

 

Get somebody else to choose your stuff.

 

It's much easier to make decisions about other people's stuff.

 

It is about your own stuff.

 

Like, Rob, you'll never need this.

 

Rob Bell:

You know, I know somebody who would be well up for that right now, well up for it.

 

Yeah.

 

She would be all over it.

 

Jono Hey:

You probably wouldn't have many clothes left actually, would you?

 

Rob Bell:

It'd be a change of clothes.

 

It'd be a big change of glassware, pots and pans.

 

Jono Hey:

It is really very liberating doing it, is what I say.

 

Yeah.

 

You'll enjoy it.

 

I'd encourage anyone.

 

Rob Bell:

There's a mutual friend of ours, Philly, who's very good at this.

 

And he moved house quite a lot within a short period of time for a while when he used to live here in London.

 

And he had a philosophy of, listen, I don't ever want to accumulate any more stuff than two big bags full, then I'm good.

 

And he just, he lives like that.

 

Jono Hey:

I do remember those brilliant days where you could literally put all your stuff in your car.

 

I remember that, that was uni, and then first few houses, it's like, cause you're moving quite regularly, so it's like, just get everything in the 205 and that's it.

 

Rob Bell:

Moving house, right?

 

Moving house is a great catalyst to declutter.

 

Tom Pellereau:

It's when you find the box that is in the attic that you moved into this house and never got out cause it was at the back and you realize you definitely should need that one, but maybe I will.

 

No time to sort it now, I'll take it with me.

 

Okay, can I just, before we move on, can I just plug another sketch?

 

Rob Bell:

Yes, please.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Very little known one.

 

Rob Bell:

Jono, this is Sketchplanations, The Podcast.

 

You plug away some.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Can I plug a sketch?

 

It's called The Laws of Expansion, which I don't know if you came across.

 

And it's quite relevant.

 

It was essentially kicked off with, there's something called Parkinson's Law, which is the work expands to fill the time available.

 

Rob Bell:

Yes.

 

Tom Pellereau:

But I think there are two others, which is stuff expands to fill the available space and cost expands to fill the available budget.

 

Rob Bell:

Yes, mate, totally.

 

Tom Pellereau:

There are various genuine physical physics expansion laws.

 

But I think these, you know, like if you have a big house, you will eventually fill that house, you know, that kind of thing.

 

Rob Bell:

I remember when I had an office job and, you know, a salaried job, I got like, I don't know, a pay rise of a thousand pounds, right?

 

Or maybe even two thousand.

 

But I don't know what it was.

 

It wasn't loads, but it didn't make a single difference the way I lived my life, right?

 

Because if you're given a bit more, you're going to spend it.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

 

So it's not just stuff.

 

Rob Bell:

Is it Boyle's Law, though, that really is the physics law, that a gas will occupy the space that contains it?

 

Tom Pellereau:

It could well be.

 

It's been a while.

 

Jono Hey:

Good engineering knowledge, Rob.

 

Let's just say, probably.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Probably Boyle's Law.

 

We've got three more pillars to get through.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, sorry.

 

Yeah, we've got three more pillars.

 

Right.

 

So the second pillar was too much choice.

 

Now, I can certainly be paralysed by too much choice, but I will say, and we're not going back to too much stuff, but sometimes the fact that there's too much choice benefits me from avoiding having too much stuff because there'll be so much, so many decisions, I can't make that decision.

 

And so in the end, I just go, oh, actually I don't need it.

 

So I won't bother buying it anyway.

 

So when it comes to purchasing goods and products, the fact that there's too much choice and being paralysed by that helps my too much stuff pillar.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Definitely.

 

Jono Hey:

There's lots of research on this, isn't there, Jono?

 

Tom Pellereau:

I mean, there's a sketch about the paradox of choice.

 

Rob Bell:

Of course there is.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Too much choice leads to paralysis.

 

And actually, I think quite interestingly, which is what I tried to get across in that sketch, the dissatisfaction and the flow goes, you're like, oh, was it raised expectations?

 

You're like, oh, there's so much stuff.

 

So one of these has got to be amazing.

 

This is going to be great.

 

And then the opportunity cast is like, well, if I pick this one, it means I'm not getting those ones.

 

Maybe they're good.

 

And then you think, well, if I, I think I might, maybe I'll prefer the other one.

 

Oh, I'm not sure anymore.

 

And then you're not as happy with the one you got.

 

And then if you don't get something that you like, you're like, oh, I never picked the best one.

 

You've got a self blame.

 

And so you, actually more choices made you unhappy with yourself.

 

I like, you know, the classic thing with the supermarket line, right?

 

There's loads of lines, it doesn't happen so much anymore, but like the trolley lines, you're like, which one should I get into?

 

Maybe it's the passport line at the airport or something.

 

And you're like, okay, wow, this one looks good.

 

And then of course it's not the good one.

 

And you're like, oh, I always picked the wrong line.

 

And it makes you unhappy.

 

Whereas if there was just one line, you'd be fine.

 

Rob Bell:

I totally agree.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Just do the wait.

 

Anyway, yes, paradox of choice.

 

Rob Bell:

There's definitely choice when it comes to retail and shopping.

 

I was also thinking about a choice for jobs and careers in life as well.

 

There's obviously a massive choice for that.

 

There's a choice for entertainment and hobbies and how we spend our free time as well.

 

Jono Hey:

TV, I've absolutely, and Netflix.

 

Sarah and I will turn it on and be like, oh, let's watch a film tonight.

 

It's Friday night, we've had a long week.

 

And we sort of sit down with some food.

 

And then half an hour's gone and we still haven't actually chosen what to watch because there's just so many different things to choose from.

 

And you kind of, I thought that the whole point of Netflix is it would kind of understand us and then just tell us what to watch.

 

Like, is that not the point of the algorithms or whatever?

 

When are these AI and these algorithms going to get better and just be like, yeah, you should just watch this.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I remember once we got some, I don't know, it was like a phone contract.

 

So we got like a free film each week.

 

And it wasn't like a voucher for a film.

 

It was like, there was this film.

 

Jono Hey:

Here is this film.

 

Tom Pellereau:

That's free.

 

And actually, I remember it was quite nice.

 

First of all, we watched a few films that we would never have otherwise watched.

 

Secondly, we never had to think about it.

 

Jono Hey:

Yes.

 

Tom Pellereau:

And yeah, thirdly, you didn't waste any time deciding what to do.

 

You're just like, we're just going to watch this one.

 

And also if you watched it, you didn't like it.

 

Well, it wasn't your fault.

 

Jono Hey:

You didn't pick a bad one.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, that was the one they recommended.

 

It could have been better, but you know, it was all right.

 

It was quite nice when somebody just gave you one.

 

Here you go, just do that.

 

Rob Bell:

That's really good.

 

Tom Pellereau:

There was a pizza place in Berkeley, actually, which I did The Paradox of Choice about, and they just did one pizza every week, cheeseable pizza, it was amazing.

 

Every day, sorry, one flavor of pizza.

 

You know, it might be broccoli and brie today, I don't know, whatever it was, it was Berkeley, so it was that kind of thing.

 

And it was always delicious, and you never had to think, well, all you had to do when you got to the thing was say, I'll have two slices or four slices, and they just did it by the slice, and that, you know, or Rob, Rob, you would have six slices, I don't know.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, there's another restaurant in London, I think there are a few of them kicking about.

 

I used to go to one in Paris as well.

 

It's called the Le Roulet de Venise.

 

It's a steak joint, right?

 

And you go in, they give you a salad with a lovely dressing on it, and you get steak and chips.

 

The only choice you get is, I think they've probably got three different wines and how you want your steak cooked.

 

Boof, done, lovely.

 

Jono Hey:

On tricot is the same.

 

Rob Bell:

That's it, on tricot is the same as well.

 

Jono Hey:

It's my favourite restaurant, I love it.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I think curation is just massively important and valuable and actually like more so, more and more so, finding a place that you trust that is going to have good stuff each time you go there.

 

There's another sketch, which is just an idea.

 

No, it's just that, evidently I think about these things a lot, which is a good teacher is like a DJ for learning is the idea, it's just a metaphor.

 

And I was thinking, you know, like there's a trillion things you could listen to, but if you listen to a DJ, they've picked out, these are the tracks that I think you'll like now and I'm going to introduce some to you.

 

Maybe you're not, maybe this is new to you, you wouldn't have picked this, but I'm going to introduce it to you.

 

And a teacher is like that too, you know, there's so much choice for what you can read and learn at any point on the web.

 

And actually it's super valuable to have somebody who's like, I've been through this stuff, I'm going to teach you these things and forget about those things.

 

And it's so nice to like not worry about all of that other stuff and just take these.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, that brings us on and I'm going to use that little segue to take us into the next pillar of too much information, right?

 

And I think the obvious place that my brain goes to with this is like 24 hour news and 24 hour news coming at you from at least three or four different channels if you want it, as well as on social media, as well as on the radio, as well as the newspapers.

 

It's everywhere if you want to seek it out, but that's just in news, right?

 

Information obviously then expands much wider than that.

 

Tom Pellereau:

It's pretty staggering how much information and content is produced at any more point.

 

And Tom, you're making products, I'm making more content on the web.

 

Here's another thing for you to read.

 

Actually, I do think about that quite a lot.

 

If I've got loads of stuff in my inbox, and if I'm not adding value, don't subscribe to Sketchplanations.

 

The point is like, it's quick and easy.

 

Maybe it gives you something.

 

Maybe it doesn't, but it hopefully doesn't take loads of time like going through all that information.

 

Although I haven't said that.

 

Our kids could have the TV on now with subtitles going and be listening to music at the same time somehow and somehow manage to process these things.

 

I just can't do that.

 

Maybe I just can't do that anymore.

 

Rob Bell:

I think multitasking does kind of fall into this too much information, right, Pillar?

 

I'm not very good at it.

 

I have to focus on one thing at a time, but I don't know, is multitasking, does that bleed into too much information, like an information overload that your brain is trying to work with at any one time?

 

Jono Hey:

In many respects, I think multitasking is bull in the fact that I don't think any of us can truly multitask.

 

We just switch between relatively quickly.

 

So we think we're multitasking, but actually all we're doing is one at a time and switching and there's a certain amount of, I think it's proven that there's a certain amount of time it takes us to switch.

 

So if you're trying to do more than two things, you're probably drastically failing at those three things you think you're doing.

 

You're actually burning the toast at the same time as not entertaining the child and probably misordering that thing that you're ordering on your phone at the same time.

 

Rob Bell:

Sounds like you're speaking from experience with that particular one.

 

I mean, it's very specific.

 

Jono Hey:

Of the experience of watching others, obviously.

 

But definitely too much information or trying to do too many things at the same time.

 

And this world of ours trying to push things at us the whole time is actually one of the reasons I love living outside London.

 

I found being in London just too hectic, too much stuff, trying to come at me the whole time and trying to absorb it all.

 

And I much prefer the kind of, I'm in a town, St.

 

Albans outside to the north, and then I work actually in the middle of the countryside.

 

Like, I go out, there's fields all around me.

 

So I really love trying to reduce the amount of information coming at me.

 

But then I do also love going into the centre of London and seeing you guys and seeing other people and getting that dose of information and too much coming at me.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, you know, it is a choice as to how much information you want to subject yourself to, right?

 

If you want to avoid the news, you can do that quite easily.

 

You don't watch the news, you don't put the radio on, you don't read the news blogs or whatever else.

 

You know, you can avoid it.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, I have a thing with my dad where he can't avoid it.

 

He feels compelled to watch all the news.

 

Rob Bell:

As in a kind of, it's his kind of like a social responsibility to know what's going on.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Potentially.

 

I don't know if it's-

 

Rob Bell:

I understand that.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, yeah.

 

I do understand that.

 

Yeah, and so, you know, his thing is, well, you can't just like not know what's going on.

 

Just sit in your own world, ignoring, you know, real life out there.

 

But then there's also like, I sort of feel like if, you know, most important things happen, I'll probably find out about it.

 

It's not like I have zero news.

 

I just don't watch it every day.

 

Jono Hey:

So Jono, I'd be very interested in your strategy to this.

 

Like, do you look at the news once a week, once a day, like at all?

 

Do you like, you just hear it in conversation?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, yeah, little things I found.

 

Rob Bell:

It's a good question, this Tommy, because, yeah.

 

Jono Hey:

Because I'm really intrigued, because I think Jono's probably got this right.

 

Yeah, because personally I feel like Rob and I are probably on the, if we haven't checked the news every hour, we're probably about to.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, at least every day.

 

Jono Hey:

Every day, and a few times.

 

And I personally have to limit myself.

 

Like, I give it up for long stretches, because I'm quite addicted to it, and I don't find it that positive.

 

I don't really know why I do it.

 

Social responsibility, I slightly claim, but I'd be interested in Jono's approach.

 

Rob Bell:

Go on, Jono, pressure's on you.

 

Jono Hey:

He's just reading the news.

 

Tom Pellereau:

No, I was just looking for a sketch.

 

I was looking for a sketch, because there's one about, essentially about, watching too much news, and that it makes you unhappy.

 

I will find that in a bit.

 

I found that little strategies I've found useful.

 

For example, if I pick up a paper on the way in to work, I don't take it on the train.

 

So I limit my time and I put it back on the stack, and then I get on the train, and that means I make the most of my train journey by reading my book, and I don't find myself paging through random pages of the paper just because I have it, you know, stuff like that.

 

Like, limiting your potential exposure to it.

 

I also just, yeah, I don't know, don't put the TV out.

 

Jono Hey:

This ability, like, you don't really eat chocolate either, do you?

 

It doesn't really do it for you.

 

Rob Bell:

It's perfect, isn't it?

 

Tom Pellereau:

I was gonna share one of, and so many related sketches, I never realised this, but one of my favourite sketches, which is on the wall here, is a Zen proverb, which is, when drinking tea, just drink tea.

 

And it, like, the idea is just focus on what you're doing at the time in that moment and not try and be doing two, three things at the time.

 

Not try and be absorbing this and absorbing that all the time.

 

So, you know, if you're listening and you're walking, feel free to stop listening and just enjoy your walk.

 

Yeah.

 

Rob Bell:

But then when you stop...

 

Jono Hey:

Or turn this off and just walk.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, but then when you've stopped your walk and you've finished your walk, turn it back on and finish it.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Turn it back on, so thank you.

 

Too much information.

 

I found that sketch, by the way, which is called Mean World Syndrome, which is all about, essentially, they did a study of people who watched a lot of TV and people who didn't.

 

And they found that those who watch more believe the world is a meaner place, essentially.

 

And so there's a few things.

 

People believe the world's more dangerous.

 

They believe more people are young.

 

They believe that people are not to be trusted.

 

And there were also some other attitudes like believing women's places at home coming from watching too much TV.

 

But anyway, so the name for it was like mean world syndrome from watching too much.

 

Rob Bell:

All right, well, let's move on to the last one.

 

Too fast, too much speed, if you want to put it like that.

 

So we do live in a culture of immediacy now, right?

 

I think, you know, where if you go onto Amazon, you can have it delivered same day sometimes, right?

 

And there are all these within the hour shopping deliveries that you can have.

 

Even with communications on emails and SMS and WhatsApp, whatever, you know, there's an expectation that if you send something, someone's gonna respond straight away.

 

There's this fast, fast, everything now, now, now kind of culture that we all live in.

 

And again, I appreciate from what we're talking about at the top of the podcast, that might not apply to other people from other cultures or in a different demographic, other parts of the world, perhaps.

 

Maybe it's different, but there's definitely a culture of immediacy in our worlds, I feel.

 

And probably again, for a lot of our listeners.

 

Jono Hey:

I was talking to my dad the other day and he lamented the days where things were used to have to be done by letter.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, can you imagine?

 

Jono Hey:

Because you could write a business letter, send it off.

 

You know, the person wouldn't get it for at least a day, if not possibly two or three.

 

He said that actually, in some respects, it was quite a good thing because people would kind of think things through, maybe calm down, and it just meant that you were less under this constant pressure.

 

I never lived in that world.

 

We were always emailed in the working world that I'd known.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I was thinking about the, if you read biographies of scientists, it's often they have, they're made from like going through their letters and they wrote these really long, thoughtful, detailed letters back and forth.

 

Yeah.

 

And it's such an interesting thing.

 

Like I've never, I think, like sat down and spent hours or days over a letter and then send it.

 

So maybe I did when I was 14 or something once.

 

But yeah, I don't know.

 

You'd never do that now or something.

 

You write a blog post or you just send it in, send it in a thousand messages in WhatsApp or something.

 

I don't know.

 

Just a different way of doing stuff.

 

But maybe it was better because as you say, you spend a lot more time thinking about what you're gonna send before you do it.

 

Rob Bell:

Again, this kind of comes back to the law of expansion, right, that if you fit your activity to the time that you've got to do it.

 

And I'm definitely guilty of kind of over cramming my to-do lists in a day and then setting an expectation for what I want to achieve in the day and then not actually doing it, because that list was completely unrealistic in the first place, as opposed to giving myself two things to do within the day, which is probably realistic and then feeling good about myself at the end of it.

 

But where does the pressure come from to constantly be on the go, to be having a full agenda and be doing everything as fast as you can and moving on to the next?

 

Where has that come from?

 

Jono Hey:

Partially ourselves, partially our society, our friends, our culture.

 

Rob Bell:

Do you think we do that more than our parents possibly did?

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, for sure.

 

My parents often talk to me about, how do you do, why are you trying to do all this stuff?

 

Like, what are you doing?

 

But when the kids go to stay with my grandparents, they'll have the most amazing time just-

 

Rob Bell:

With your parents, their grandparents.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, because they'll go and like just pick blackberries.

 

That will be like day after these activities or dig up some potatoes or, you know, like, and they'll just spend ages doing it and have fun and play together and, you know, whereas we would have set loads of things to do and it's helping me to understand more and more as well.

 

But I think there is this strive to do more.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, well, I mean, one of the beauties of Sketchplanations, the podcast is that there's no, actually, no, this doesn't work.

 

Move on.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Well, no, it's funny, because I was I was going to say actually that it's quite common now to watch videos or listen to things faster than real time, right?

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Listen to one and a half, listen to an audiobook at 1.2, 1.5 speed because it's too slow at normal talking to me.

 

I was thinking that there's probably people listening to this at 1.5 speeds.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

I always listen back at 1.5.

 

Rob Bell:

Do you?

 

Jono Hey:

Sorry.

 

Yeah.

 

I'm one of those people.

 

Rob Bell:

I apologise.

 

You're trying to do things as quick as you can.

 

Jono Hey:

Move on.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Back to the kids thing, I was kids got quite into watching videos of like Minecraft and stuff on YouTube and all the videos are just manic.

 

Sometimes I just wanted to stop and turn them off because everything is edited perfectly together.

 

So there's no breaks.

 

Rob Bell:

There's no ums and ahs.

 

Tom Pellereau:

There's no...

 

There's no ums and ahs.

 

There's not a single pause in the conversation and everything is like non-stop and the footage is changing, you know, from something which, you know, will take you a minute to walk from here to there.

 

It's like, boom, flash here, boom, flash here.

 

Oh, and this happened.

 

<v SPEAKER_8>Oh, and look what's happened there.

 

And it just doesn't stop for minutes and I do, I don't know, I find it a bit stressful.

 

They seem fine.

 

But I don't know.

 

Maybe, maybe it's not.

 

<v SPEAKER_8>Who knows?

 

Rob Bell:

So this is really interesting.

 

And I think The 4 Pillars of Too Much probably manifest themselves differently for kids as they do to adults.

 

And they probably always will as generations and the cultures around different generations change.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah.

 

And they're probably the pillars go up at different speeds because when you're young, you maybe don't actually have that much stuff.

 

And certainly in our 20s, we had hardly anything as it as it were.

 

But when you get into 60s, you end up having a lot of stuff and don't have the energy to to do the clearing out and throwing away.

 

Rob Bell:

But maybe you slow things down a bit then.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, you change in different ways.

 

You're probably your information and your speed of doing stuff.

 

And I think we're very rude about older generations as to how slow they drive or walk down the high street.

 

Or I think we've probably all found ourselves doing that.

 

Rob Bell:

But based on what we've been talking about now, doesn't that seem really nice?

 

Jono Hey:

Often they're probably not rushing back and forth because they've forgotten something over there.

 

They're just moving.

 

Tom Pellereau:

So it's all of us trying not to be late.

 

It's a problem.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

<v SPEAKER_5>It is.

 

So my suggestion for a happier, less stressful lifestyle be to maybe try and carve out a bit of time at regular intervals, however that is, to try and reduce the height of these four pillars by some means, for a day, for half a day at the weekend, I don't know, whatever it might be.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah.

 

Create little rules for yourself.

 

Like Jono said with this, not taking the paper on the train, just leaving it at the station.

 

For me, I don't take my mobile phone upstairs anymore.

 

It's not allowed.

 

So I leave the phone downstairs when I go to bed, it stays down there.

 

And that I found that really helps because otherwise I'm in bed reading the news, going what am I doing?

 

I should be going to sleep.

 

Yeah.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I can't remember where I read it, but somebody said, why don't you just spend 10 minutes doing nothing?

 

And then why don't you spend 15?

 

When was the last time you spent half an hour doing just nothing?

 

Not like watching something or reading something, just doing nothing.

 

I was like, gosh, I can't even remember.

 

It's been half, when did I spend half an hour doing nothing?

 

Rob Bell:

And how would you feel about doing that?

 

If you did, would you feel guilty?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, it's probably like meditation, isn't it?

 

At the beginning, you're like, your brain is doing all this stuff.

 

And by the end, you're probably like, oh, only half an hour.

 

Is it really time to stop already?

 

Yeah, I don't know.

 

Rob Bell:

Any other business on The 4 Pillars of Too Much?

 

Anything else?

 

Jono Hey:

No, I really look forward to hearing feedback from others about their views on it, what they've done, what strategies they've got.

 

Rob Bell:

Strategies, any tips?

 

Jono Hey:

What are strategies and tips?

 

I love that.

 

Tom Pellereau:

But maybe I'll say one strategy.

 

Jono Hey:

My go to bed strategy.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Okay, yeah.

 

Well, just quickly, one strategy I think was key point of the book, and it was about children.

 

But I think it works for us as well, actually, two things.

 

One was control your environment, so like clearing your desk to focus.

 

And the other one was about rhythms and routine and actually how that benefits you.

 

It's that like, I don't have to wonder what happens now, because it's seven o'clock.

 

I know that I go upstairs and I have a shower and I brush my teeth and I go to bed.

 

As a child, for example, that is the routine and that I get up and I do this and I go here and I come back and I don't have to, it takes away all those choices and that can be really beneficial and perhaps we do with a bit more rhythm and routine sometimes in our lives.

 

Rob Bell:

Sounds good to me.

 

Sounds good to me.

 

All right, well, listen, driven by the desire to avoid you, our listeners, feeling like you've had too much from The 3 Pillars of Sketchplanations, the podcast, I'm going to round off this week's chat there.

 

I said pillars, not pillocks.

 

Next week, we'll be discussing something very close to Jono's heart.

 

Small little peep.

 

That was uncalled for.

 

That was, that was, I'm sorry.

 

Tom Pellereau:

It's all right, it's all right, I've moved on.

 

Rob Bell:

We're talking about smart little people.

 

Next week, it's a creative tool employed as part of a design philosophy called TRIZ that I know both Jono and Tommy, you've both worked extensively with before, so you can look forward to that.

 

Tom Pellereau:

There you go low, you go high.

 

Rob Bell:

That was cheap.

 

That was cheap.

 

We'll be back in a tick to go through the postbag of your correspondence, but for now, hickory dickory dock.

 

The mouse ran up the clock.

 

The clock struck one.

 

The mouse ran down and that's where this podcast must stop.

 

Thanks for listening.

 

Go well, everybody.

 

Stay well.

 

Goodbye.

 

<v SPEAKER_8>Bye.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I can't be short on a podcast.

 

I'm the same height as everyone else.

 

It's a great leveler.

 

Rob Bell:

Okay then.

 

Let's have a little rummage in this week's postbag.

 

Now, I mean, first of all, I put a little post out about our episode on Dunbar's number on Instagram, asking people about how it kind of tied in with their mobile phone contacts.

 

Remember, we were talking about how kind of 150, 50, and then Jono, you and I both had 15 favorites in our contacts and Tommy, you had five, you said.

 

So, I wanted to see how that kind of tied in with other people and had a number of responses to that.

 

And on average, those who responded had, let's say, a handful of favorited contacts, so much more along the lines of what you had, Tommy, five loved ones using the nomenclature of Dunbar's number.

 

And hardly anybody had numbers as high as 15, like you and me, Jono.

 

Maybe we're just too, maybe we're too liberal with our favoriting, we're too generous.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I thought you were going to say popular, though.

 

Yes, that's it.

 

I don't think it counts if you favorite other people, does it?

 

That's not being popular.

 

Rob Bell:

That's not, that's a different realm.

 

Jono, did you have one from Dunbar's number?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, I had just a comment from, actually from Nancy, who featured in our episode about well-being and she pointed out actually how important all of these ties are and that with the pandemic, a lot of these ties will have reduced and at the same time will have intensified some of the very close ones.

 

And essentially all of us might need to spend some time rebuilding the networks that we might have lost over those, you know, year, year and a half or so with the pandemic.

 

It's really interesting.

 

Jono Hey:

So what's quite interesting in this is in a couple of weeks, I'm going to an old school reunion, an invite went out a couple of months ago.

 

And these are people that, it was 25 years ago, if not a bit more.

 

And at first, it was like, oh, this is a bit scary.

 

And then it was kind of reconnecting with my five, ten best friends from school and one's in Canada, he can't make it, one's in Australia, can't make it, one's away at centre parks with family, can't make it.

 

And it was kind of like, but also sort of restarting relationships with people like on WhatsApp or on Facebook to try and reconnect where all my friendships back then were in person and face to face, like telephone was the only option back then.

 

And it's all of us were kind of like, well, are you the those of us who are available like, well, I'll go if you go.

 

And Beyonce says he'll go if I go if you go.

 

And it's like none of us sort of all of us were on the fence unless it's like, right, okay, we're going to go the last understanding.

 

And I'm sure it'll be amazing.

 

But it's 28 years ago, actually, since I saw but they were my best, best friends at the time.

 

Rob Bell:

Similarly, Tommy, there was there was something that I thought about after we recorded the podcast on Dunbar's Number is when Jono, you brought up the concept of the handshake overhead in businesses that are growing.

 

And that suddenly, oh, there's actually quite a bit more time and energy and effort needed to manage this number of people that handshake overhead.

 

I was reminded of what it was like working in a French office and Jono, you were there in the same company, slightly different office, but the same company, the literal handshake overhead, the time it took to go around every morning and shake hands or fell abuse with everybody.

 

I mean, where did those boundaries stop?

 

Was it within your team, within your department, within your building?

 

I think my literal daily handshake overhead encompassed my floor of the office, which was around 20 people, I'd say.

 

And it probably took 10 minutes.

 

It was nice, but it was a formality.

 

Jono Hey:

You shake hands, would you shake hands with every single person?

 

Rob Bell:

Yes.

 

Tom Pellereau:

The first time you see them during the day.

 

Rob Bell:

But it's not like you had to have a chat.

 

You could go into a room, say bonjour, shake the hand and leave the room again.

 

But occasionally you would have a chat.

 

Jono Hey:

And you'd go into every room?

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, you'd go into every office.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Wow.

 

I remember the glass walls and glass doors.

 

So you could see that people were in there.

 

And so as you walk down, you pop into this office, shake two hands, pop into the next one, shake two hands, pop into the next one, shake two hands.

 

And as you say, Robert, it's about 10 minutes before you got to your desk.

 

It's nice in a way.

 

I liked it.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, I was going to say, was it nice?

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

But then sometimes if you'd forgotten that you might have seen someone as you were walking down the corridor and bumped into them, you go, have we seen each other today?

 

I was like, I don't know.

 

Should we shake hands anyway?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, go on.

 

Yeah.

 

Rob Bell:

It's nice.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Real handshake over here.

 

Rob Bell:

I'm going to take us to a few episodes back from last week's episode on Dunbar's Number, because as we're getting ready to get series two underway last week, we put out a few highlight reels on social media with some clips from the first series.

 

And we've had some lovely feedback about various topics from that as well.

 

So there's one here I wanted to pick up on.

 

So in episode 12 of series one, that was on cross modal perception.

 

That's one of my favorites, actually, I learned loads when we did that.

 

And we have a new listener, Aaron from Dallas in Texas, has messaged to say that he experiences synesthesia.

 

Do you remember we talked about that?

 

Now in that episode, we established that none of us have it or that we knowingly knew anybody who had it.

 

So we couldn't really describe it much more than what we'd read about it, that people see shapes and colors that are associated with numbers and letters.

 

But Aaron writes that not only the numbers that he sees are colored, there's also a weird shape that he sees when those numbers are strung out.

 

So if you and I think of numbers one to 100, I can say I see them in a row in a line from left to right going up, right?

 

That's how I see it.

 

And I think a lot of people probably see it like that.

 

Could we do a little check?

 

Do you guys see them like that if you just think of one to 100?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Do I see them stacked on top of each other maybe?

 

But yeah, maybe.

 

Rob Bell:

But Aaron says his don't follow a straight left to right sequence.

 

He goes one to nine start left to right, and then they start to turn up around seven, 10 is a turning point, and from 11 to 16, they shoot to the left in a slightly upward gradient.

 

And then they go back around to the right, kind of like a spiral or a helix.

 

And then he says he can't always define the colors, but nine is definitely this muted yellow.

 

The 20s are maroon, the 30s are green, and the 70s or 80s are a light gray.

 

I just found this absolutely fascinating.

 

And he finishes by saying that he's never found this condition to be even remotely helpful.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Alas.

 

That's so cool.

 

And really fascinating, yeah.

 

Rob Bell:

It is brilliant.

 

And there must be so many different variations of that for different people.

 

I mean, in his message, Aaron said he didn't know that he had this.

 

He didn't even know it was a thing until he saw a TikTok on it about a year or so ago.

 

I've got one more that I was going to pick up from Emily, who left us a message on Facebook.

 

And she says she was catching up on some old episodes.

 

And as a chronically slightly late person, she realized that she really liked the point on the cost of lateness.

 

And she asked, Is it better to be slightly late and not ready or on time, but flustered and not ready?

 

Ideally, she says you'd be on time and ready.

 

And brilliantly, she signs off saying that, ironically, I've just made myself late listening to this and leaving this comment.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I love that Emily was catching up on the episodes as well.

 

That's crazy.

 

Rob Bell:

Me too.

 

That's great because there's a lot there.

 

Anything else, boys?

 

Jono Hey:

Oh, affect and effect.

 

That came up the other day and I'm trying to remember it.

 

And I think I got it right.

 

I think I got it right.

 

Rob Bell:

How will you know, Tommy?

 

Jono Hey:

Didn't you have a little way of remembering?

 

Yeah, but it requires a bleep, I think, didn't it?

 

Because if you affect the person pushing Jono into the sea, which is you, and you are being an A-hole, and so that's got the A in it, and the effect was him in the water.

 

Rob Bell:

That was it?

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah.

 

<v SPEAKER_8>That's the job.

 

There we go.

 

But then I was trying to remember which way we were going.

 

Tom Pellereau:

As long as you don't accidentally call the person in front of you an A-hole.

 

Rob Bell:

All right, well, listen, that's probably enough for this week.

 

Thank you, everybody, for all of your comments and feedback.

 

Please do keep them all coming in.

 

And we love hearing your stories of experiences around the topics that we discuss.

 

So please do send them all in.

 

That is definitely one of the joys of doing this podcast for me, hearing what others think about the topics that we discuss.

 

It's just brilliant.

 

You can email us hello at sketchplanations.com is the address, or you can leave us comments or messages up on social media.

 

And if you ever fancy taking in slightly extended versions of each episode, you can watch us podcast up on YouTube.

 

Just search for Sketchplanations The Podcast.

 

It's all up there.

 

All right, thanks very much for listening.

 

See you next week.

 

Bye-bye.

 

All music on this podcast series is sourced from the very talented Franc Cinelli.

 

And you can find loads more tracks at franccinelli.com.