Phubbing

Rob Bell:

Levels one, two, three.

 

Jono Hey:

One, two, three, four.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Oh, this is not going to work.

 

I've got chocolate in front of me.

 

That's not going to work, is it?

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, throw it away.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I'll hide that way.

 

Rob Bell:

Have you done any press ups?

 

Tom Pellereau:

I have, I'm done with 20.

 

Rob Bell:

I'm all done.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, not him.

 

<v SPEAKER_4>Mm-hmm.

 

Jono Hey:

First of all, thank goodness that somebody's made a word for this phenomena, so now we can easily call it out.

 

Rob Bell:

I guess if you've got two fubbers together.

 

Jono Hey:

Just happily fubbing each other, doing important stuff on our phones.

 

Rob Bell:

Fubbing away.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Don't fub me.

 

Come on, man.

 

Eight of us, we haven't seen each other for six months, and we were all looking at our phones, trying to work out how to order just a beer and our dinner.

 

Jono Hey:

I don't think it's a secret that a lot of people wish they were spending less time on the phones.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Our society, our culture, our etiquette hasn't had time to really catch up.

 

Rob Bell:

There you are, sat outside a cafe on a warm, sunny morning with a good friend, catching up, having a lovely old time over a cup of coffee.

 

Their phone on the table beside them, buzzes suddenly.

 

It's a text message.

 

They have two options.

 

Do they ignore it and carry on enjoying this time?

 

Oh, no.

 

Oh, you've lost them.

 

Hello, and welcome to Sketchplanations, The Podcast.

 

Now, if you look up the word Sketchplanations in the dictionary, well, you won't find it.

 

But if you type Sketchplanations into your preferred search engine, you'll be laughing because you'll undoubtedly end up on sketchplanations.com, the place to access the hundreds of sketches that gleefully explain stuff in the world around us through the medium of a simple sketch.

 

And in this podcast, we select one of those sketches each episode to explore its themes and application to our own lives in a bit more detail.

 

I'm Rob Bell, and I'm joined by two of my best mates.

 

That's Jono Hey, the talent behind and creator of Sketchplanations, and Tom Pellereau, aka Inventor Tom, aka The Apprentice Winner from 2011, aka Tom Tit Tommy.

 

Hello gents, you all right?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Every week?

 

Rob Bell:

Have you noticed?

 

I've always called you all these different things.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Maybe not to my face.

 

Rob Bell:

Tommy, you'll be pleased to hear I've been online again.

 

This time I've been having a look around at some of the wondrous moments you've given us all on TV.

 

And there was an interview you did for GB News about a year and a half ago.

 

And so you pop up and the anchor guy introduces you, and then you just go off into your own world saying how great Lord Sugar is and how great the BBC is.

 

And then you do this awesome little sales carousel of products and they come in from the right.

 

You give it an explanation.

 

It goes out to the left.

 

The next one comes up and you're just going off.

 

It's absolutely brilliant.

 

Holding them right up to the camera so they're told the teller you can see until he jumps in and says, all right, mate, this isn't QBC.

 

It's brilliant.

 

It's such a good clip.

 

<v SPEAKER_8>I love it.

 

<v SPEAKER_8>I love it.

 

Relentless.

 

Jono Hey:

Always be selling.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I do love live TV.

 

I have got on trouble on BBC Breakfast.

 

I think I pulled a nail file out and even managed to get one in there.

 

It's very important to have a product in the pocket, ready to go all the time.

 

Jono Hey:

It's a good thing you sell small stuff, not like pianos and things like that.

 

Here's one I wheeled in earlier.

 

Rob Bell:

Listen, it dawned on me a couple of days ago, changing the subject slightly, that Sketchplanations as a word, even though it's not in the English dictionary, is a portmanteau, by which I mean a word made up of two other words, like internet, which is, was it interconnected network?

 

Internet or labradoodle, labrador and a poodle.

 

You want to say labrador and a doodle there, but labrador and poodle.

 

Spork is another one, a spoon fork.

 

Jono Hey:

Spork's good, yeah.

 

I learned about a chalky the other day, a chihuahua and a Yorkshire terrier.

 

Rob Bell:

Brilliant.

 

Dogs are great for it, aren't they?

 

Dogs are great for it.

 

There's the Cabapoo, all the poo ones.

 

Jono Hey:

They're everywhere these days, aren't they?

 

Rob Bell:

They make kids laugh anyway.

 

Jono Hey:

Poodles are apparently excellent for it.

 

Rob Bell:

I was going to ask if you've done a Sketchplanation on portmanteaus, and then I just thought, well, I'll have a look.

 

And lo and behold, you have.

 

In fact, you haven't done one, you've done two.

 

Jono Hey:

I think I did two, yeah.

 

I think I did two.

 

Rob Bell:

Do you remember?

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, one of them was just like, what is a portmanteau?

 

And it just explains about like smushing words together, right?

 

Like Oxbridge.

 

Yeah, that was one of my favorites.

 

Brunch.

 

Brunch is a good one.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Jono, have you just pronounced that correctly following Robbie mispronouncing it for the last five minutes?

 

I hope so.

 

Jono Hey:

Do you know it's a good-

 

Rob Bell:

What, portmanteau or portmanteau?

 

Jono Hey:

Well, you know, I always figured it was a French word.

 

And, you know, I'd say manteau in French for a coat, right?

 

Rob Bell:

So that's what I was, what I think what I was trying to do is what I do sometimes when I don't really know and just try and go through it quickly and go halfway in between a portmanteau.

 

Jono Hey:

Just be bold.

 

<v SPEAKER_4>Well, yeah, who knows?

 

Rob Bell:

Do you remember the other ones you had on the sketch?

 

Jono Hey:

Oxbridge and Brunch.

 

I mean, you know what, I remember the food ones.

 

I think the food ones were the ones that come to mind.

 

Because I think that was where I first sort of learned of it, was Tofurky, the tofu turkey.

 

Rob Bell:

Yep.

 

Jono Hey:

And isn't there the most ridiculous one, Tadukin?

 

Rob Bell:

Yes, that's it.

 

Jono Hey:

What is that?

 

It's a chicken stuffed in a duck, stuffed in a turkey, I think, as a real thing that exists.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, tur, duck, ginger.

 

And there's a cheese as well that you did.

 

So the two, there's Portmanteau, what it is, and then there's examples of food ones.

 

Do you remember the cheese example you did?

 

Kambozola, camembert and gorgonzola.

 

I don't know how you do that though.

 

Do you just get the two and mash them up?

 

I don't know.

 

Or do they make it that way?

 

Jono Hey:

It's probably different than how they make the dogs, I should think.

 

Rob Bell:

Anyway, enough confabulation for this week.

 

Let's get on with it.

 

This week's podcast covers an observation of modern life that drives me crazy.

 

And as it happens, it's also a portmanteau.

 

Or a portmanteau.

 

This episode, we're talking about fubbing with a pH, the act of snubbing those around you by prioritizing your phone.

 

It's a portmanteau, phone, snubbing, fubbing, and I hate it.

 

And I'd like to take this opportunity now, actually, to apologize unreservedly to anyone who ever feels like I have ever fubbed them, because I would hate to think that I have done that, but it's possible in a moment of madness at some point.

 

And if I have done that, then I am truly, truly sorry.

 

If you've not already looked up this sketch, the artwork for this podcast episode on your screen should be the Sketchplanation of fubbing.

 

Or as always, you can find it online or on social media through the links in the description for this podcast episode.

 

Now, Jono, I'm angry even thinking about this.

 

So just please give me an opportunity to calm down for a minute, take over.

 

Where did the idea for this sketch come from?

 

Jono Hey:

Fubbing was one of those terms where the moment I saw it, I was like, first of all, thank goodness that somebody's made a word for this phenomena.

 

So now we can easily call it out.

 

And secondly, I was like, well, I need to share this somehow because it's so good.

 

I learned about it from the Mind Over Tech community, which is trying to help people out with their digital habits, exactly this kind of thing, not trying to get distracted by your tech, your phones, alerts, notifications and all that.

 

And it just speaks to you straight away.

 

And so the artwork, if you get a chance to look at it, is I think just such common scenarios.

 

There's a parent and a child walking along and the parents checking their phone, and maybe for all sorts of good reasons, but the child can see that and feel that, that they're not engaging with the child.

 

And of course, they're walking past a little restaurant and there's three friends at the restaurant and two of them on the phones and the last person to bit, oh, what am I supposed to be doing?

 

And yeah, so that's where it came from.

 

And as soon as I put the sketch out, actually, so many people could relate to it.

 

So yeah, it's nice to share it as a concept, even if it's something we want to get rid of generally as a society.

 

Rob Bell:

And when people were relating to it, what was the general consensus in how they viewed it?

 

Jono Hey:

I just think everybody just recognizes it in other people and also in themselves, you know, as something they wish they would get rid of.

 

Yeah, I think so.

 

I think so.

 

I don't think it's a secret that a lot of people wish they were spending less time on the phones.

 

And it might be that in the moment, you don't notice that you're phubbing someone else, right?

 

You don't notice, and that's why people do it, because you don't realize that you're affecting the person opposite you perhaps.

 

But I think all of us are conscious that it happens and we might occasionally be guilty of it, you know, picking up our phones a little bit too often, certainly I think as parents as well.

 

Rob Bell:

Tommy, are you a phubber?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Oh, hugely.

 

Phubbing you never realize you are.

 

And like I am very happy to say I am highly addicted to my phone.

 

Right.

 

And I do genuinely see it as a bit of an addiction because they are so highly addictive.

 

There are literally hundreds of thousands of people in the technology companies behind there trying to make sure all I want to do is pick it up and do something on it and, you know, give my attention to this phone.

 

And I've recently Mind Over Tech, you just mentioned it, Jono.

 

I've been doing their accelerator program to try and help with little tricks with the communities to try and help me sort of get away from it.

 

Because the place I really see it is with my kids.

 

They don't have phones yet.

 

They're eight and nine.

 

But their iPad, when I take that or try and take the iPad away, they're just these like little monsters for a little bit.

 

And you're kind of like this is, you know, just like with sugar, with ice cream.

 

Jono Hey:

Because they're so addictive.

 

Rob Bell:

Wow, exclusive.

 

Jono Hey:

Can't get enough of them.

 

Rob Bell:

I mean, I know a couple of very consistent fubbers.

 

And I raised it with one of them the other day.

 

And he was quite upset by it.

 

I mean, it shouldn't have been.

 

It wasn't a surprise because he knows it, because I've told him before, his wife told him before.

 

But when I mentioned it again, I was like, well, you are a classic.

 

One of these.

 

He's like, oh, God, am I?

 

And he really didn't like that.

 

He didn't like the fact that I guess he accepted that that's what he did.

 

So I guess that does come into that addiction sign.

 

Jono Hey:

I think it doesn't mean it's easy to do something about.

 

Rob Bell:

No, I agree.

 

Tom Pellereau:

No.

 

No.

 

Jono, have you got the Mind Over Tech cards?

 

Jono Hey:

No.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Have you tried many of them?

 

Jono Hey:

No, not yet.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Because one of them is, can you see that?

 

Yeah.

 

So there's just a post-it note, post-it note on my phone which says why.

 

So it's a little challenge that you do for a day.

 

You just put it on.

 

So every time you pick up your phone, you go, why?

 

Why is it that I'm picking this up?

 

Is it for some useful purpose, or is it just because I'm bored, or I don't want to be doing what I'm doing?

 

Rob Bell:

I like that.

 

Tom Pellereau:

And it's amazing how you go like, yeah, actually, why am I picking it up?

 

Rob Bell:

Did it help?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Play with your kids.

 

It really helped.

 

And what was amazing is actually getting my son to write the why.

 

Because then I saw it and I saw it in his writing.

 

That's a good twist.

 

That's yeah.

 

Why am I looking at this?

 

Why am I like, Jack, let's play, let's play a game.

 

Let's do some stuff.

 

Let's let's read together.

 

Let's just do something, which is not that.

 

Because there's just, for me, it's the news.

 

I don't know.

 

The amount of time I used to spend just on BBC website, just looking through the news.

 

I didn't really know why.

 

Rob Bell:

But is that different to like, thubbing because in my mind, thubbing is where you're having a chat with somebody there in front of you, and then something happens on your phone and you take your attention away from that present of people with you and you look at your phone.

 

I think there's a distinction there between that scenario and just sat on your own or in the office or as a distraction or whatever.

 

You just get your phone out and start looking at the news or whatever.

 

Is there a distinction?

 

Jono Hey:

I think so.

 

I think thubbing is meant to be about snubbing the people with.

 

If you're by yourself, by all means, look at your phone, check the news, I guess.

 

But I think it all builds up.

 

You might be not having a conversation with somebody and looking at your phone, but they're in the same room and you check the news.

 

You could stop what you're doing, go over to them in that room, or you're both in the garden and check your phone or whatever.

 

I think they build on each other.

 

I think they're different, but that habit of checking your phone for something, I'm sure it leads to it, right?

 

Tom Pellereau:

It's a good point, Rob, that snubbing, fubbing, it probably is a bit more than that, but they do build up.

 

The worst one that I remember is actually, remember when we all met up, there was about six of us met up after lockdown.

 

One of the first lockdowns, we were in a pub in South London, and they wouldn't allow us to order at the bar, so we all had to download an app and order our drink independently on it.

 

And it wasn't deliberate fubbing, but I remember looking up and like eight of us, we haven't seen each other for six months.

 

We're in a bar for the first time in years, and we were all looking at our phones, trying to work out how to order just like a beer and our dinner.

 

Jono Hey:

It didn't feel like an improvement.

 

Tom Pellereau:

It was horrible, it would stick with me forever.

 

Jono Hey:

Ordering on your phone is like, I'm sort of here to be with people to get away from the phone.

 

I don't want to sit here and order on my phone, but I mean, it is convenient sometimes, but also, yeah, like if everybody sat on their phone at the table, it's probably a disaster.

 

Rob Bell:

One of the things that I've noticed is like a real catalyst for phubbing is having notifications for WhatsApp messages, text messages, emails, news alerts, and having your phone ping at you or buzz at you or whatever.

 

That I've found is the real, probably the real catalyst for that.

 

I turn off most notifications, no, which is why it sometimes takes me quite a long time to reply to messages, because I don't want my phone pinging at me all the time because I'm so popular.

 

No, I just don't want my phone going the whole time.

 

I'll look at it when I want to look at it.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I agree.

 

Rob Bell:

For some things I do, for some things I'll have a notification, but for most things I don't.

 

Tom Pellereau:

But the worst one is I once was like, I'm going to do a weekend without my phone.

 

I'm not going to pick it up from Friday to Monday morning.

 

And then on Monday morning I picked it up and I saw these messages from Jono Hey on a Saturday saying, oh, at last minute I just happened to be in St.

 

Albans.

 

Are you guys around?

 

And I was like, you're absolutely kidding me.

 

They're like the one weekend that I don't check my phone all weekend.

 

Jono Hey:

It's so useful.

 

Rob Bell:

It's tough, isn't it?

 

It's hard to find.

 

I mean, that is not a solution.

 

I mean, turning off your phone or turning off your notifications, I don't think that is a solution.

 

Jono Hey:

No, but it helps.

 

I mean, I think there's even some evidence to the fact that even if your phone is visible when you're with people, it can distract and affect the quality.

 

So like if your phone is on the table, people are aware of it.

 

And whereas if you, you know, what you should do is turn off the beeps and stick it in your bag where it's outside, out of mind.

 

And ideally, I think you do the same at home, right?

 

And that just reduces.

 

It's about setting your environment, isn't it?

 

Like reduces the temptation for that stuff to happen.

 

So just, just put it away if you can.

 

Rob Bell:

But then, so then here's, here's a question that I, I wondered about earlier, posing different scenarios in my mind.

 

So you're there with one other person or two other people, like in the sketch, you're one of the guys sat at the, at the table, cafe table, whatever.

 

And there's a ping for a text message and you look at it.

 

That in my mind, that's phubbing.

 

Or a news notification, that's phubbing.

 

What if it's a phone call and you look at it and the conversation stops because everyone's looking at you, looking at your phone and people will normally go, oh, go ahead if you need to take it, take it.

 

But is that phubbing?

 

If you have a phone call and you go, oh, excuse me guys, I just need to take this.

 

Is that phubbing?

 

Jono Hey:

I mean, it probably is, but I do think there's something about a phone call, which is easier to take as the, as the other person, the person not receiving the phone call.

 

Rob Bell:

The phubby.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, the phubby than, than a message.

 

And I think, I think it's actually the problem with, yeah, it is a problem with, with messages.

 

And I think part of it is cause you can't, you can't see what people are doing.

 

So you don't know why.

 

And like when somebody, when you get, when that message comes in, you might be arranging, you might be saying, you know, we're sat around the corner 200 yards on your right, you know, so that somebody can come and join you.

 

But nobody knows that as far as they could say, you could be watching the, you know, checking the sports scores.

 

And I think that's the thing.

 

And so when the phone call comes in, you can see that people are on the phone and you know, maybe you should stand up and walk off and take the phone call.

 

But I actually sort of think we should do the same for like messages and stuff.

 

You know, you can just look at your messages there and then quickly, but you're probably better off like walking around the corner and saying I've just got to check a few things and then coming back.

 

And then that way your whole attention is there.

 

So I do think there's something about the fact that it's been able to understand why they're doing what they're doing, which makes you feel snubbed or not.

 

So, you know, if they're having a conversation with a friend, you still feel a bit part of that, I think.

 

So, yeah, I think it's different, but subtle maybe.

 

Rob Bell:

I like that.

 

I like that as a bit of social etiquette to or at least say, sorry, sorry, I just need to do a couple of things on my phone quickly.

 

Or just turn yourself away from the table or something quickly.

 

Get your head down, do that and come back.

 

Jono Hey:

Agreed.

 

Rob Bell:

Distance yourself formally or in an announced way about what's happening just quickly.

 

But I'm back.

 

Right.

 

Jono Hey:

I'm back.

 

Rob Bell:

Sorry about that.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah.

 

The other thing I think about call, which makes it a bit better is, you know, messages are like asynchronous.

 

So, you know, you send you send the one and saying, hey, we're just around the around the corner.

 

And then two minutes later, something else comes in and then you say, yeah, we're still there.

 

Can you not see us?

 

And that drag that thing over for six minutes or something.

 

Whereas if you have a call, you get it.

 

You get it all done there and then real real time.

 

And so the distraction is not like lengthened over the course of the evening or whatever it is you're meeting.

 

So there is something I think preferable for a call and something really annoying about repeated small interruptions that really can really bug you or me at any rate.

 

Rob Bell:

It bugs me.

 

But I was thinking, I mean, I'm not saying I'm perfect in this, you know, and I'm trying very hard not to judge people who do feel that really deep, almost, Tommy, you said like addictive connection to their phone.

 

I'm trying very hard not to judge that.

 

Tom Pellereau:

You are good, actually.

 

I think you are always very engaged.

 

Rob Bell:

Whenever out with that's why I chose this topic to me.

 

Thank you.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah.

 

Jono Hey:

Make myself look good.

 

You know, I was a lot of sympathy for for parents as well, because there's so much important stuff these days is on your phone.

 

And that's that's also the challenge, you know.

 

So it might be that you're you're actually doing something really important right there on your phone.

 

But, you know, as I say, for the all your toddler nose, you're looking at some pictures or the news or whatever.

 

And it just feels like they're less important than whatever is you're doing.

 

But it might it might not be right now.

 

But everything's on your phone.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Whereas actually you're booking their childcare.

 

You know, because reality you like either booking their childcare maybe, or you're doing the shopping for the groceries, or you're buying that t-shirt that they have to have for that fancy dress costume that they've got to do on Tuesday because they've got to be a Roman centurion or something.

 

It's just so many things that you're constantly doing.

 

And as you say, right, like you can't see what's from the back of the phone.

 

You can't see what's going on.

 

I think I hope that I hope that changes.

 

I hope I hope that AIs start really doing a lot of the hard work.

 

You know, like that answering where you are.

 

If you could just say, look, AI, if dreams your contacts, can you just say we're here?

 

Kind of thing.

 

And I'm really hopeful that that starts working better.

 

Rob Bell:

In the sketch, Jono, there's, you know, as you've described beautifully at the start of this, there are two sets of people there.

 

There's the guys sat at the table and then there's the parent or care and the child.

 

I find that the second one with the kid, it's quite heartbreaking.

 

The first one is just an annoyance around the table with adults.

 

But the second one, you look at it and go, oh, poor little kid.

 

I don't have my kids, so, but you both are parents.

 

So, I mean, are you conscious of that or have you caught yourself being conscious of that at times?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, Robbie, completely.

 

And that's why I've been doing this course.

 

What really highlighted it to me the other day was I noticed that Jack had been on his iPad quite a lot that morning.

 

It was like a Saturday morning.

 

And I was on my phone at the time looking at him going, Jack, I really think it's time you put the iPad down now.

 

And I'm like, on my phone.

 

Rob Bell:

And how old is Jack?

 

Tom Pellereau:

He's nine.

 

So he really enjoys, you know, Mr.

 

Beast and Minecraft and this sort of stuff.

 

And we now have it that, you know, for example, I no longer take my phone upstairs.

 

It's only allowed downstairs, which I've found is quite a good barrier to, you know, then when I'm upstairs with them, we're playing, we're reading books and that sort of stuff.

 

And that's quite nice.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah, we got into a discussion the other day.

 

Eleven year olds recently got a phone and we asked him to get off and he said, Well, look, my screen time, I've spent seven minutes on it today.

 

How much have you spent on your phone today?

 

Okay, well, screen time, you know, it's less than we expected, to be honest, but it was over an hour.

 

Yeah, I think I think parents charge is tricky.

 

I also I also think by its very nature, in a way, you, you can easily end up like fubbing the people you care about the most.

 

And I think I think it happens.

 

It's like the it's the people you spend the most time with.

 

It's your partners and your friends and your family and the kids who get it the most.

 

And when you're probably when you were the group of strangers, you don't say much, actually, funnily enough, you're probably a bit more involved in the conversation.

 

And so, yeah, it's tough to take it.

 

Yes, you get that heartbreaking thing if you if you see it from the kids point of view.

 

Rob Bell:

I'll tell you something that really hasn't helped.

 

Fubbing, that's the bloody smartwatch.

 

So now you don't even have to take your phone out your pocket or out your bag, whatever.

 

It's on your wrist.

 

Jono Hey:

It's always there.

 

Yeah.

 

But you can't.

 

Yeah, I don't know.

 

You'd notice people buzzing coming in and somebody's arms on the table.

 

And it's just keep buzzing, keeps buzzing.

 

It affects everybody, doesn't it?

 

Rob Bell:

I'd be all right with the buzzing if it wasn't buzzing followed by, you know, you're chatting away, but the other person is buzzed.

 

And then they've just gone like this.

 

And you can tell they're not listening to what you're saying.

 

I mean, that may just be my chat.

 

But then it takes them a few minutes and then they actually play with it a little bit, a few little swipes or whatever.

 

And then they're back.

 

But for those 10, 15 seconds, you've lost them.

 

You've lost them.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Yeah, you may as well not be there.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah, I just hate that.

 

Jono Hey:

It's curious though, isn't it?

 

So tremendously efficient and probably, you know, arrange some stuff in those three seconds, but it disrupts what you're into now.

 

It sort of makes you really appreciate the times where there aren't those distractions coming at you.

 

Rob Bell:

And I get it.

 

I get it.

 

You know, there's a lot going on.

 

You know, it's a busy, busy world.

 

I wondered if there was fobbing before mobiles came around.

 

And let's say we're around someone's house and I know you're having lunch or having a coffee or something, and you're having a nice chat in the living room, and then the home phone goes, bring, bring, bring, bring.

 

I mean, I don't think you'd ever expect that person, you know, going back to what we know for when mobiles didn't exist.

 

I don't think you'd ever expect that person not to go and answer the phone.

 

No.

 

Jono Hey:

It's like annoying, but you like fair enough.

 

You don't know who it is, right?

 

Maybe it's important.

 

Probably don't get that many phone calls.

 

I was thinking that, I don't know so much the phone.

 

I was trying to think what, yeah, like what's an early example of it for me.

 

And it might be like the dad reading the paper at the table or something, you know, all the family are chatting or something.

 

You just put the paper up in their face and I'm reading the paper.

 

Leave me alone.

 

I'd rather be reading this paper than chatting with my family right now.

 

I guess that was sort of an early example.

 

But even that was slightly better in some ways, because at least you could see he was reading the paper.

 

On the phone, you don't know, do you?

 

Rob Bell:

But I'm very aware that, you know, in expressing my views towards fubbing, that I could come across as a kind of anti-progressionist, that no, things should say the same.

 

I'm a traditionalist.

 

I don't want things to change and technology and progress is awful.

 

I mean, I do feel like that generally about life, but I don't want to.

 

I want to try and accept the ways of modern life as much as I can.

 

But I feel that there's something here that's not quite right.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I think the bottom line is that all of this stuff has arrived very quickly.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Hasn't it?

 

Like the smartphone, what was it, 2017?

 

Rob Bell:

What?

 

Jono Hey:

What?

 

Tom Pellereau:

No, 2007, sorry.

 

The iPhone, you're going to have to clap that out.

 

I think the bottom line is that all of this has arrived very quickly.

 

It's like 2007, the first iPhone.

 

Only an idiot would get that wrong.

 

And so it's just an Instagram is not that old and WhatsApp is not that.

 

And we're just our society, our culture, our kind of etiquette, so to speak.

 

You said it earlier, hasn't had time to really catch up.

 

Jono Hey:

Yeah.

 

Yeah.

 

Rob Bell:

But do you think it will?

 

Tom Pellereau:

Neither is our brain and how we go.

 

Rob Bell:

I really do think you think it will or have these behaviors been so set.

 

Tom Pellereau:

And I think we're all a little bit more conscious about it than we used to.

 

Jono Hey:

I would agree that I think it's a transition.

 

And I think I think our kids will be better than we were like, you know, that's interesting.

 

We might be like cautioning them that it's going to be some mega distraction.

 

You never get any work done or do anything real because technology will distract you all the time.

 

And I think they'll figure out ways to make it work because they grow up with it.

 

And I think it's a bit more of a challenge for us where you've had these established habits as oldies.

 

And then this new thing comes in.

 

You're like, oh, you shiny thing.

 

I see it with my parents as well.

 

My dad would be happily at a dinner table conversation with the family, checking the football scores and showing us the football scores.

 

I don't care about the football score.

 

We've just got everyone together for the last six months for the first time.

 

Rob Bell:

Yeah.

 

I mean, along those lines, this is moving away slightly from filming, but you know when someone needs to show you a photo or needs to show you this video of a YouTube thing, you're like, oh, just send it to me.

 

We'll have a look at it on my way home type thing.

 

Let's use this time a bit better, shall we?

 

Tom Pellereau:

We can never find that photo quickly, can we?

 

We're always like, oh, it will just be quick.

 

Jono Hey:

I know someone who will happily be taking photos of the gathering and then interrupt the gathering to show you the photo they just took.

 

Everyone sat there.

 

Hey, look at this.

 

That's a nice photo of us here right now.

 

It's great.

 

Rob Bell:

I think these are, in its widest sense, these are all examples of phubbing.

 

You know, it's phone interrupting a social interaction.

 

Jono Hey:

Speaking of social interaction, Tommy, I have to say you're the worst for this is the power of a mute television.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Oh, yeah, I am horrific.

 

Jono Hey:

I think you'd admit it yourself.

 

If you go to a pub...

 

Tom Pellereau:

I cannot talk if I can see it through.

 

Jono Hey:

You have to be very careful.

 

Point, Tom, away from the mute television, you know.

 

And actually the mute is even worse, right?

 

Because you have to look at it because, you know, you don't know what's on it.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I hate sports bars because they have TVs all around.

 

Like most bars, you can have it so it's behind you.

 

But you are correct, Jono.

 

I'm awful for that.

 

Rob Bell:

Any other business before we kind of round up or conclude the topic of phubbing?

 

Jono Hey:

I feel like we're all guilty.

 

Rob Bell:

I agree.

 

I agree.

 

I am by no means whiter than white in this sense.

 

And here I am on my high horse.

 

But what I do know for sure is that it's something that bugs me a lot.

 

Tom Pellereau:

I would really encourage people to try putting a post-it note on your phone, which says why.

 

And one of the reasons it's a post-it note is it actually doesn't last for very long.

 

Rob Bell:

I love that.

 

Tom Pellereau:

So it comes off and then potentially put another one on.

 

Rob Bell:

Better than Tipex.

 

Tom Pellereau:

Better than Tipex.

 

But it just makes you think every time, like, why am I?

 

If you've got to do something, you've got to do something important, take it off, do it.

 

But often you'll find that you really don't.

 

Rob Bell:

Well, listen, I'd love to know what other people think about this.

 

So please let us know about your own experiences of phubbing and whether it bothers you as much as it does me.

 

I am open to the idea that some people might think it's not such a bad thing.

 

And you can comment and message us all on social media.

 

I don't know, maybe I'll do a poll online and see what other people think about it.

 

Otherwise, I'm going to go and pour myself a large old whiskey because I need to calm down after all.

 

Well, in the next episode, guys, we're going to be talking about silence or silences.

 

And more specifically the urge we might all have when in company to fill them.

 

<v SPEAKER_9>Very good, don't be that well.

 

Thank you all very much for joining us and for listening in on this episode.

 

You know, on a live radio show, like a breakfast show or something, when lots of people would be tuning in and listening in their cars on the way to work, you can ask everyone to honk their horns or something at the same time so other people around know who else is listening to the same radio show as you.

 

It's a bit of fun.

 

Podcasting has killed that joyful phenomenon.

 

But if you feel brave enough, how about you let out a lovely old yee-haw right now, wherever you are, whatever time of day it is, because you never know.

 

There's always the possibility that Jono, Tommy or I are within earshot.

 

And if that were ever to happen, we promise now to give you an even louder yee-haw right back.

 

Please subscribe to the series, tell your friends and family and all the other bits and bobs, and we'll be back next week with more Sketch Chat, or in its portmanteau form, Sketchats.

 

That one doesn't work.

 

Okay, until then, stay well, go well.

 

Cheers, goodbye.

 

All music on this podcast series is sourced from the very talented Franc Cinelli.

 

And you can find loads more tracks at franccinelli.com.